98: Justice League War (DCAMU)

Summary
In this episode of the Comic Dudes podcast, hosts Dave and Matt dive back into the DC Animated Movie Universe, focusing on 'Justice League War.' They discuss the film's context, character dynamics, animation quality, and voice acting, while also comparing it to the previous film, 'Flashpoint Paradox.' The conversation touches on themes of violence, tone, and the portrayal of iconic characters like Wonder Woman and Green Lantern. The hosts conclude with their ratings and thoughts on future DC adaptations.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Context Setting
05:06 Exploring Justice League War
10:04 Character Analysis: Wonder Woman and Others
14:55 Comparative Analysis with Flashpoint Paradox
20:00 Voice Acting and Animation Quality Discussion
27:11 Aquaman's Absence and Shazam's Identity
32:33 Comparing Cinematic Universes: DC vs. Marvel
39:52 Fun Facts and Cameos in Superhero Movies

DCAMU Watch Order:
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/dc-animated-movies-in-order/

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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Transcript

Dave CDWA (00:02)
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes, podcast about comic books and comic book related things. My name is Dave with me as always, my esteemed Superman shirt wearing co-host Matt. Matt, how you doing?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (00:14)
I'm feeling super. I'm very excited to talk about this. It's been a pretty rough couple days. I have not slept well, but I watched this movie last night. I don't know what's going on, I watched this movie last night. I was really excited to talk about it. It's been a while since it's been out, so I was just excited to talk about it. Yeah, no big deal. No big deal. Just like a decade or something like that, but nah. Love.

Dave CDWA (00:23)
I haven't either.

Just about ten years.

Yeah, you know what's, you're gonna put it into perspective. This movie came out four years after the last time the New York Jets made the playoffs.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (00:44)
This is gonna be morbid. For some reason I feel like this is gonna be morbid. I don't know.

Dave CDWA (00:55)
and it's 10 years old.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (00:59)
Yeah, most teams should at least make the playoffs in 10 years. for 14 years, 14 longest in North American sports, right? Sorry.

Dave CDWA (01:04)
14. 14 years. Yeah, 14. Yeah.

Indeed. No, that's okay. I brought it up. I am at the point now where all I can do is laugh or else I'll cry.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (01:22)
Yeah, all you can do is laugh.

Dave CDWA (01:25)
Yeah. if you, if you listen to this podcast and you're a sports fan, there was a wonderful article written this week after, Joe Douglas was fired about all of the meddling that the Jets owner, Woody Johnson has done. If you'd like a laugh or you'd like to feel better about your own sports situation, I urge you to read this article. You'll feel much better about yourself. promise.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (01:32)
Yeah, dude.

Yeah.

Or just general organizational like incompetence from the top. It's, really is a case study. Like I want to read a book about this one day. Like, poor day.

Dave CDWA (01:53)
Yeah, if you think your team has poorly run, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Ain't seen nothing yet. Masochist.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (02:03)
Yes you are. Yes you are.

Dave CDWA (02:05)
some would say loyal, some would say foolish. I would say broken. I am broken.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (02:12)
This is beyond loyalty. This truly is a whole new level of something.

Dave CDWA (02:15)
Yeah.

yeah I know we yeah I don't get it anyway

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (02:23)
We might need to go to therapy about that too, so let's not get into that.

Dave CDWA (02:27)
Yeah, yeah Real quick real quick plug So if you'd like to connect with us outside of the podcast the best thing you can do is join the discord We're all active in the discord Matt and I as well as sometimes Eric We're there. There's some of y'all in there already We love talking guys about comics and sports and video games and stuff So if you haven't heard the discord yet urge you to do so as the best way to connect with us You can also follow our Instagram and our tick-tock we post less frequently than you would expect or probably like

Hey, I get it. I would like to post more too. I just don't have the time. We do our best, but you can follow us there. I have quit Twitter. I am on Blue Sky. If you'd to find me on Blue Sky, I actually posted my Blue Sky in the Discord, so you can join the Discord and go find it there if you want it. My mat's still on Twitter. Eric's technically still on Twitter.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (03:18)
Yeah. I'm going to try to promote on Twitter and a little bit, but I do like blue sky. I downloaded that as well too. I've been messing around with it. So it's, it's, I haven't started yet. I've, I just, I just did it like yesterday. So we'll get there. when you said the best way to connect with us, I was going to say at your local comic shop, because shout out to my guy, Benny, who I met in person, who is a podcast listener. was just like, that's also a good way to meet up, meet up with someone. yeah, no shout out, Benny. Yeah.

Dave CDWA (03:26)
thanks for following me.

Mm. Mm. Mm.

That's right.

Yeah, that is awesome. Yeah, I'm glad that Benny didn't want to wear your skin as a mask too. That worked out too. Appreciate you being a normal dude, Benny. You're awesome. We love you.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (03:50)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he was super, yeah, normal and awesome and I hope I see him again. So, yeah.

Dave CDWA (04:00)
Yeah, honestly, you never know when you... For those that don't know, I've played in bands like the majority of my life. I started playing in bands when I was 16. And like, you never know when you meet somebody that you don't expect to meet if they're gonna be weird or not. Like, there's always the possibility that they're gonna be like an absolute energy vampire or just like a total fucking creeper.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (04:14)
Yeah, no, I agree.

Yeah, no, I wanted to hang out with Betty. No, I'm trying to hang out with Betty. you know, we had a good time. Yeah, dude. That's true. That's true.

Dave CDWA (04:23)
Not the case here.

I'm jealous that you're able to, I'm so far. I get to hang out with Jared though, We share a practice room, our bands do.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (04:34)
That's awesome. I didn't know that, so.

Dave CDWA (04:37)
Yeah, I mean his band doesn't practice often and neither does mine, but we technically do share the space. Anyway, if you can read, you saw the title of this episode already, but if you don't know what these are, we are watching, slowly, the 16-film connected DC animated movie universe. I think it was two months ago we watched

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (04:42)
Got you.

Dave CDWA (05:06)
Justice League Flashpoint Paradox, and we loved it. Continuing, the second movie is Justice League War. We watched it, we're gonna talk about it. No recap like we do for the Let's Read episodes. This is just a conversation about the movie. So, there'll be absolutely massive, completely spoiled spoilers in this discussion. If you don't want to hear that kind of stuff, I urge you to walk away right now. Turn off.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (05:29)
You

Dave CDWA (05:35)
Spotify, shut your phone down, I don't know, whatever. Whoever you need to disconnect from this conversation, you should do so. If you want to come back after you've watched it, you can do that too. Go ahead, we'll be here. We'll be waiting. And if you don't care about that stuff, then let's go. Let's talk about it.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (05:56)
I would highly recommend these movies, especially the two we've watched thus far. If you're someone who watches films like digitally as well too, there have been multiple like large sales on these films. Like Dave sent me a link for like all 30 of them for like 20 bucks. And as we're approaching like the holiday season, whether you use like Fandango or you're on the Xbox or you know, whatever like.

I would really recommend getting these, like even if you don't watch all of them, the majority of them I have watched have been quality and I've enjoyed them. So you might not watch all 30. Yeah, what's up?

Dave CDWA (06:33)
You know what?

They're on sale right now on Fandango. I bought them on Friday for $14.99.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (06:38)
Are they okay? So like they're normally like

That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. Like I think I spent like 25 on my Xbox and I synced everything up. So everything moved over wherever I would watch it. But like, I'm very positive on these movies. And Dave, if you don't mind me starting, I'm going to be a little biased, probably in the good in this film, especially because this film takes me back to like when I really started getting really serious, especially with DC comics.

Dave CDWA (06:58)
Please, please do.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (07:11)
This film is based on the origin arc of the Justice League book, which was the first... It was the Justice League book. They relaunched the DC Universe. They're like a soft reboot called The New 52 in 2011.

Dave CDWA (07:27)
Buddy, that was not soft at all. That was hard as fuck.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (07:30)
Well, it was hard except for, you know, like Batman and Green Lantern, because those books were really good. You know, like, so we're going to keep the continuity there. We're not going to reset all that. Like there was a couple other books, but I would agree with you. Like it was a hard reboot for a lot. It was a hard reboot for everything that wasn't selling very well. So yeah. Yes, yes. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Dave CDWA (07:35)
Yeah.

Okay, yeah, alright, I'll give it to you.

yeah I'll tell you this that let me put it this way the marketing for new 52 positioned it like a hard reboot

But you're absolutely correct. They were like, well, we don't want to get rid of all of it. We like this Batman stuff.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (08:03)
Exactly.

yeah. So this was like when Dave was getting me in, I was reading like Spiderman and stuff. And then I, we've talked about blackest night, how like Dave threw out the previews. He's like, I'm not reading that shit. And then he ended up reading it and really liking it and got into green lantern, like hardcore. And like, at the time I remember us both being like really excited about this reboot because it was cool. They marketed the hell out of it. Another big thing, like this was the first like

The new 52 is kind of the reason that we have like digital comics from Marvel and DC, because they went really, DC went really hard. was digital comics in the aspect of day and date. This was one of the things that was marketed with the new 52. And with that, like one of the first, we don't, I know we're audio, but one of the first absolute additions I got for DC is this arc. I love this whole origin arc.

I love the Justice League that Jim Lee did. thought the art was top notch. The stories were good. The Justice League book in the new 52 was fantastic. And that, so that, that's, that's why I say I'm a little biased towards this. So like, I really like, like this book, this movie from what I remember, I haven't read this in a very long time, but the beginning especially was like almost panel for panel from like this story, like the team up with.

Dave CDWA (09:16)
I agree.

Yeah, go ahead, sorry.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (09:35)
the team up with Batman and Green Lantern I especially like because that's like not a team up you get all the time. And those at the time those happened to be like my two favorite DC characters because this was the Jeff Johns Green Lantern run that was just epic. And I really recommend you read that if you're if you're at all interested in Green Lantern, I recommend you read that run. And also this was when Scott Snyder was starting up his new 52 run. And that was also a really good run of comics. Go ahead, David. I mean, to cut you off.

Dave CDWA (10:04)
No, you're good. I was interrupting you, no worries. I was just going to say that, like usual when we do a movie watch, I have some fun facts. And one of those is that this is absolutely meant to be like the adaptation of that origin story in New 52 for Justice League. There's some dialogue in that Batman and Green Lantern stuff in the beginning of the movie that is taken directly from the comic, like unaltered dialogue for the most part.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (10:06)
No, you didn't.

Yes.

Okay. It's, it's sat like it, kind of sounded like it read. mean, I haven't read it in a while, but, yeah, the, the, the art style of the film. also like really enjoyed. I don't, I think it's like an animation inspired style. don't know. Like I like the, it's an art style that like carries over through a lot of these films. I wouldn't say it's like full on anime, but it, it's got a nice.

a nice flair to it. Anime. I say, anime and then the anime, yeah, no, anime, anime. also probably my favorite character in this whole thing is Wonder Woman. I really like Wonder Woman. she's a sexy, powerful, bad ass chick.

Dave CDWA (11:02)
Did say anime or MMA?

MMA, mixed martial arts.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (11:30)
And I also like in this like film, you'll notice that naive trend that I like. She has that like Captain America from the MCU, like in the comic books as well too, but like I'm thinking of the MCU of Chris Evans at the end of the like first Avengers movie where he's like the person out of time. Like she definitely has that vibe. and I just thought that was like funny. Like there was like good humor in this movie and it wasn't like, I don't think it was like over the top jokey, like the

All the humor like landed for me. wasn't like, it wasn't like eye rolly or cringy to me. and, she was definitely a part of that. She was a massive part of some of the biggest fight scenes and like the whole thing, especially when she does like the rescue of the president on air force one, like that was a bad ass scene. She just comes in there. It's just like a dynamo just splitting these two parademons in half. And then the ultimate fight at the end with dark side, like she ends up taking his eye. If I remember she's the first person.

stabs him in the eye with the sword. And just kind of watching this, I really hope that Warner Brothers games gets their head out of their asses and makes a good Wonder Woman game if they ever make it. they, she's like, nope, not gonna cancel, not gonna happen.

Dave CDWA (12:39)
No, they won't. They won't. No, I know they won't because the CEO of... Yeah, like games as a service is the thing that he's after. You already learned that with that Suicide Squad debacle. Like you're not gonna get that Wonder Woman single player... Like, dude, let Rocksteady make a single player Wonder Woman game. I would love that. I would pay...

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (12:45)
Games is a service. It's gonna be a game.

Lube box.

Yes.

That's what I'm. Yeah, dude, I can.

Dave CDWA (13:08)
Any amount of money for that. Not any amount of money. I'd pay a lot though. I'd pay going rates for a new video game. But I'd still pay for it. I wouldn't wait until it went on sale. I'd buy it day one. How about that?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (13:11)
Feel out

Yeah.

You'll definitely buy it day one. Well, I hope they can actually make a somewhat decent game. Primarily single player and not games as a service, but we'll see.

Dave CDWA (13:31)
Yes, agreed, agreed. Matt, you said a lot of really positive things so far and I'm so sorry. I do not agree with almost anything that you have said so far. Yeah, so in general, I think it's safe to say that comparison is the thief of joy. You don't want to compare your life to someone else's. You don't want to compare with things that you have.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (13:40)
I got bad, but yeah, go ahead.

Really? Good!

You

Dave CDWA (14:00)
to what others have, the job and how well-complicated you are or not to someone else. Comparing yourself to someone else will generally steal the joy out of your own life because you'll spend a lot of time worrying about what everyone else is doing and thinking that you could be better, richer, look better, all those things.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (14:07)
What?

Yes, I agree with that.

Dave CDWA (14:26)
But with this being the second movie in what is supposed to be a loosely connected 16 film universe, the only thing that I can do is compare it to Flashpoint, and this movie's worse. It's not bad. I don't think it's a bad movie, but Flashpoint set a very high bar.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (14:36)
Really? Wow.

Wow. That high?

Dave CDWA (14:45)
I think so.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (14:46)
Okay, okay.

Dave CDWA (14:48)
I loved Flashpoint. The first note that I took on this movie was, is this animation worse than in Flashpoint? Because it doesn't feel like it's as polished or fluid as what we got in that Flashpoint Paradox movie.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (14:55)
You

Wow. Okay. Bro, it's been two months. It's been two months. I don't remember. I'll be honest. I like Flashpoint Paradox. I like Flashpoint Paradox as well. So I mean, I don't remember being offended either way, but.

Dave CDWA (15:07)
That's a question. You can answer that question if you want. You don't have to, but I was posing the question.

Alright, that's fair. That's fair.

Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Wonder Woman, here's what I wrote down about Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman was such a cornball.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (15:37)
Is that it?

Dave CDWA (15:38)
Corny ass character.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (15:41)
I don't want to compare anyone's life experiences to anyone else. That's the FIFA joy. We shouldn't compare. We shouldn't contrast, but long time listeners know I'm a fan of the cornball character. So that might, that might fit my lane. That might fit my lane a little bit. So I like the, I like the, you know, I like a little corn in my balls.

Dave CDWA (15:54)
You are wearing a Superman shirt.

It does. It does.

I know, I know you do. I do not. That scene with the ice cream and she got that little cat tongue licking the ice cream like bro, corny. I don't hate kids, I hate Wonder Woman. You know what that scene reminded me of? That scene in Elf when Will Ferrell goes into that coffee shop with the sign that says best cup of coffee in the world or whatever.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (16:12)
This dude hates... This dude hates kids, He hates kids.

What?

Dave CDWA (16:31)
And he goes, my god, you did it. Congratulations. Best cup of coffee in the world. That's amazing. All we did was run that back with animated Wonder Woman. This stupid. Sorry, stupid. She's not naive. That character is not a naive character. She is a warrior.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (16:34)
You

Dave CDWA (16:48)
I don't know, man.

Didn't like it. Didn't like Wonder Woman's treatment.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (16:55)
I'm sorry. Did you agree that she had some of the most epic fights in this? On the battlefield? The warrior? Yeah.

Dave CDWA (16:59)
Yes, the fights that she was a part of, awesome. Almost every piece of dialogue out of her mouth, cringe.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (17:09)
Okay. Okay.

Dave CDWA (17:10)
Almost every, not all, but a lot of it. Also, I felt real bad for my man Steve in earshot watching her flirted up with Clark Kent.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (17:14)
Okay?

Yo he good. Yeah. Yeah. He's at the bar getting the drinks. He's looking bitter. He's looking bitter in the background.

Dave CDWA (17:23)
Yeah, like damn. Yeah. And Lois was there too in the end. I don't know if you caught that. She was there. Yeah, Lois and Jimmy Olsen were there at the end.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (17:28)
Everybody, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't catch, I did not catch Lelis there. Mmm, didn't, yeah, I didn't get that.

Dave CDWA (17:38)
They were standing right next to Steve Trevor.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (17:42)
I was so focused on Steve that, you know, I lost track. Would you agree that they didn't shy away? Like, Flashpoint Paradox, I remember us talking about all the violence. We also didn't shy away from that this movie. Not as crazy, that... I mean, that scene of the Parademons, like, reprogramming people, that Elk Man got, his eyes exploded, like, there's blood everywhere.

Dave CDWA (17:44)
Yeah, no, I get it. I get it.

They did tone it down a little bit.

Yeah, but again, that's like, right. But not a human.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (18:10)
you're doing that. No human blood. We can do grunts, we can do aliens, but we can't do any human blood. Alright, alright, I got you.

Dave CDWA (18:17)
Right, yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about the violence that was meted out upon our heroes.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (18:25)
My man got hung. My man got lynched. Last movie. Steve Trevor in the last movie. Remember? We were like, damn. Like, golly. Yeah.

Dave CDWA (18:29)
Who did? yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like it was pretty slapstick. Like early, maybe it was midway through the movie. One of the scenes they're fighting the parademons. Like Cyborg went down, three or four of those parademons are beating on that boy like he owes them money. Remember that?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (18:39)
Yeah.

Hehehehehe

Was it Cyborg? It wasn't Cyborg. Yes, yes, yes, it was. Yeah, yeah, they got... Yeah.

Dave CDWA (18:57)
It was, I'm telling you, was Cyborg at first because they were all just like pounding on him like double fist and like gorilla style like beating on this kid. And then they did the same thing to Green Lantern later in the movie. And then Darkseid did it to Wonder Woman at the end of the movie.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (19:08)
Yeah.

Yes they did. Yes they did.

Darkside pulled some full MMA. He was like full mouth. was like, yeah. A lot of ground.

Dave CDWA (19:22)
Right, but it was still like, it was that like weird like Scooby-Doo style like fast like two fist punches. I'm not talking, it wasn't like E. Honda style. This was like slapstick like punch you style. It was very bizarre to me that that was in like, they, felt like they had set a tone with Flashpoint of, hey, this is going to be tonally pretty dark, violence, pretty realistic and pervasive. And then

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (19:30)
Uhhh...

Yeah.

Dave CDWA (19:51)
It felt like it all got pulled back. And I don't know if that was reactionary or just because they didn't want a Justice League movie to be too violent towards like humans and the heroes. I mean, that first movie was called Justice League and they were barely in it.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (20:00)
Too dark, yeah.

I think because there was like no stakes though either like that part. don't know. But those Flashpoint movies like you could just do whatever you want. You can go like over the top. Yeah.

Dave CDWA (20:12)
No, I agree. You were right. Yeah, exactly. Like it's all fake. So it doesn't matter what we do to these characters. I thought that too. But still they called it Justice League and they released it. the first movie in this connected universe, which is another complaint that I have that like the actual Justice League origin and setup movie was the second one. And it made it feel a little chronologically confused.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (20:20)
Yeah.

Yeah, I can see that.

Dave CDWA (20:42)
I don't know. It's not all bad. There's things that I liked about this. And like I said, it's not a bad movie. I enjoyed it. I just had complaints. I had way more complaints than I did with Flashpoint.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (20:56)
Gotcha. I mean, my major complaint, dude, where I'm sure you probably caught it picked up on it too. Excuse me. Or some of these voice actors. This is not, this is not the a squad crew. I know you, you talked to them last time. I remember that by how your big Nathan Fillion guy, when anyone is green, that is green layering. It's not Nathan Fillion. is like glaring to me.

Dave CDWA (21:16)
Mm-hmm.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (21:22)
And that Batman actor, they, this, was not great. in my opinion, then those two, especially, think those are just some of the scenes. Maybe I was the most locked in cause I just liked those two characters together. And then being the two like human characters that was like, I like, I liked that at the end. I remember that from the comic, like Bruce saying, like, we're the only two humans here, you know, like, yeah.

Dave CDWA (21:30)
I agree.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (21:50)
Yeah, dude, some of those voice actors were very glaring. Now, slight spoiler. I don't know if you looked at the voice cast for the next movie, but we have a return to form because Andrea Romano, that is a name. I don't know if you know that name. She is the person who did the voice, like was the, the director of the voice acting and like all these like from the beginning, even before this, like Andrea Romano.

Dave CDWA (22:01)
I have not.

Okay.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (22:21)
has done all these movies up until, I think, the Tomorrow versus When She Stops. So she had been in the role for a long time. And I almost want to say even the Paul Dini stuff, the Batman animated from 1992, she had a part of it. So she is the queen of voice acting. And I feel like she saw this movie and was like, yeah, no, that ain't going to work. So Philemon's back next movie. I saw that immediately. there's some more recognizable names.

Dave CDWA (22:27)
a long time. Yeah.

Okay.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (22:49)
There are some recognizable names, though I can't remember in this film, but it just, some of the voice acting just didn't work. It didn't work for me. It didn't work for me. What's that?

Dave CDWA (22:55)
Yeah, it was a little weak. Yeah, I agree. I'll tell you one thing that did work for me. They got rid of Alex Karev.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (23:05)
They did get rid of Karev. So you don't have to think of that. He might be back next time. I just saw Nathan Fillion. He might be back. I don't know.

Dave CDWA (23:06)
Not doing the flash.

Aha!

He's got it. He's wanted in the in the ER.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (23:16)
God, yeah, who is this? I got a, the dude who played Cyborg is pretty well known and I gotta look him up real quick. dude, Shamar Moore. Shamar Moore. then Alan Tudyk plays Superman. I didn't know that. Yeah, so there's some known people. I just felt like some of the voices didn't mess up. Dude was.

Dave CDWA (23:18)
We don't need him.

Yeah, you know what? I looked up the voice actors right after I finished it. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I agree.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (23:44)
Was Billy Batson always like a dickhead? was, he is like, I know he's like a kid. like, to me, Billy Bastian, Batson is like a kid and it's like the whimsy of being an adult and like, like a good hearted kid. Like that's, from my recollection, that's the Billy Batson I know.

Dave CDWA (23:47)
That's what I wrote down too!

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (24:10)
Billy Batson was a dickhead and a thief, from what I recall. But yeah, I put dickhead Billy Batson. So it's like, that's not how I remember him, but I could be wrong. Because maybe I could be wrong. I could be misremembering it. I don't know.

Dave CDWA (24:20)
Yeah, I wrote, is Billy Batson an asshole in the comics too? Question mark.

Also, I wrote down if he's been Shazam this whole time, why do you have to sneak into that football game? Man, just fly in there and then change. No one would know.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (24:36)
Yeah, I don't, I have no idea. that, yeah. And I feel like that's where, I don't know, guess we'll get some of that backstory set up later maybe, but that was just weird. I don't know. I don't.

Dave CDWA (24:52)
Yeah, I know. I agree.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (24:54)
I also just, well, I put Silas Stone to father of the year award, like Billy Butcher's dad from the boys. was like, are are we carrying this over from the boys? Like dickhead dad of the year award goes to Silas Stone. I, dude, I just, and with the whole Stone family, like.

Dave CDWA (25:05)
Yeah.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (25:18)
I mean, I my black superhero street. I like Blade. I want a little rough around, a little cage. I want to rough around the edges, if you know what I mean. Cyborg, Cyborg. David's like, yeah. Audio, I he could have saw his face. He's like, yeah. Please don't remind him of this.

Dave CDWA (25:31)
Jessica Joes knows what you mean. She knows.

Reminder in case you all missed it the last time I brought this up the there's a there's a three trade paperback series called alias that was done under the Marvel max imprint written by Brian Michael Bendis Written by Brian Michael Bendis. It's about Jessica Jones Fantastic comic it is gritty and dark and street level just like the daredevil series He was writing at the same time cannot recommend it enough

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (25:48)
Redact all this. Redact all this.

Dave CDWA (26:10)
It shits all over that Netflix show. And it's, in my opinion, like the most interesting and I don't want say best because she was pretty, pretty fucked up person during this series, but it's probably the most interesting take on Jessica Jones and in my opinion, the best.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (26:23)
Yeah.

But with that said, dude, I've never been a cyborg guy. I've never got the care. I've never, I don't, I don't know if it's because like when I see cyborg, I always think of like the George Perez, him in that little speedo suit with the little eye, with the little eye thing, that little Terminator patch. I mean, I know that's not exactly how looks, but it's just like, he didn't look cool like this when I first saw him. He was in that little suit, that little Teen Titans suit. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know.

Dave CDWA (26:35)
Me neither.

I do, yeah. I do.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (27:00)
Never been a huge cyborg guy. no, you're good. You're good. Go ahead.

Dave CDWA (27:02)
Yeah, I actually I have God, sorry. I have no notes written down about cyborg. He might as well not have been in the movie.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (27:07)
That's a fantastic segue. Speaking of someone who's not in the movie, I think Aquaman was a huge oversight in this movie to put Shazam in there over Aquaman, dude.

Dave CDWA (27:22)
Also, why are we calling him Shazam and not Captain Marvel?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (27:27)
I don't know. I don't know why we're calling him that.

Dave CDWA (27:30)
And also, I thought when he said Shazam he turned back into Billy.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (27:34)
That's what I thought too. When he said Shazam, was like, that's, yeah. Yeah.

Dave CDWA (27:37)
Yeah, but then he just like that just called in the lightning like very confusing for me.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (27:43)
But like Aquaman, don't know if you remember like, you know, Aquaman is the guy who talks to fish and has always been lame. That, that, that new 52 Aquaman though, that was a great, the Jeff Johnson, like I was dropping some of those books left and right. That was one of the ones I actually kept reading. I, Ivan Rice was on the art. Yeah, dude. Ivan Rice was on the art. It was fantastic, dude. Yeah.

Dave CDWA (27:49)
Yeah, I know who Aquaman is.

Yeah, no, I liked it too. I was actually reading that in trade.

Mm-hmm. Let me ask you this then. Did you watch through the mid credits?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (28:11)
I actually did this time,

Dave CDWA (28:13)
Okay, well then you know why Aquaman's not in it. Setting up the next movie.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (28:17)
Yeah, yeah, still, it's a bummer. But yeah, that was pretty much all. Yeah, it was just I was like Billy, Billy Batson popped up Shazam or whatever. And I'm just like, he wasn't a part of the original group, was he? Like, I'm like, I like maybe I'm like, miss forgot or miss remembering. And I was like, I know where's Aquaman like that was. Yeah. So.

Dave CDWA (28:24)
I was okay with it.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (28:45)
I have like a controversial thing on that.

I think.

I like the Trinity. Like as much as I love Marvel, I think the Trinity is much stronger than like the Avengers Trinity of Captain America, Thor, Iron Man. I think Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are a much better Trinity personally. Okay, no, the event like when we flesh out everyone and get more people involved, like there's a million Avengers, you pick the Justice League lineup. I could see, I don't know, I still think...

Dave CDWA (29:10)
100 % agree.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (29:23)
The DC like Pantheon like she they rattled it off at the end like this is Hermes and this is like they're all supposed to kind of be the gods and Like I really like that core set but like overall like universe-wise I like Marvel more like I just love the X-Men and Spider-Man and stuff like that But I really like like that the seven The seven core Justice League members and I think that's why it vibes with me and like even to this day like they're relaunching Justice League now and I'm like

Dave CDWA (29:30)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (29:52)
I haven't pulled a paper comic in a long time, but I always want to give it a shot, especially if it's like those, you know, the core seven, every, I at least like my ears, at least perk up a little bit when I hear there's a new justice league relaunch. Like I'm always interested.

Dave CDWA (30:10)
theory as to why I don't think you and I are the only ones that think that DC's Trinity is a lot more interesting and maybe a lot cooler than Marvel's big three. And that's because go back as far as you want in DC history and their three most popular characters are Batman Superman Wonder Woman. They have been at the core of everything that DC is doing in the comics.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (30:29)
Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Dave CDWA (30:40)
as well as probably in movies and film or in TV as well. It's Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. And yes, Flash and Green Lantern and all those characters, everyone that's in the core Justice League is important, but those three are the most important. Marvel's Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Big Three, that is a recent decision and it's born from the MCU's success.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (31:03)
You're

Yeah.

Dave CDWA (31:09)
because they have not traditionally been Marvel's top and most popular characters. Their most popular characters are Wolverine and Spider-Man and Deadpool. You know, like that's who's the most popular at Marvel and Venom and like all the X-Men. that is, you can't make a Trinity out of that. Before that Iron Man movie came out in 2007, Iron Man was not really important in the comics.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (31:16)
Spider-Man, Spider-Man, yeah, yeah, that's the trend, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dave CDWA (31:37)
How many iterations of The Avengers have there been where Iron Man or Thor or Captain America or sometimes all three aren't even on the team?

You know, Marvel didn't stick to a core of their primary characters like that and have the Avengers be their flagship title and the most important title. That's one thing that DC has always done better.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (31:51)
That's a good, yeah, good thesis.

Yeah. No, I got my, my Fandango up and running. You got my movie synced over and I was just messing around on the Xbox before I came down and I booted up in game. I, for whatever reason, I went to the time travel scene when cap gives the speech, dude, nothing. I am convinced nothing is going to touch Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr. Just the look like Robert Downey Jr. Don't even have to say anything. Just how he looks at Chris Evans and they're like, whatever it takes.

whatever it takes. was like, it took me back to the theater, dude. Like, I don't think we're ever gonna touch that, unfortunately, but.

Dave CDWA (32:40)
No, not at all. Never ever. And if you'd like to know more about our thoughts on the future of the MC, we just did an episode about this, like two, three months ago. Like it's not that far. It's not that old. Go check that out.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (32:44)
So.

Please!

god.

Dave CDWA (32:56)
Very, very good observation and I bet you're surprised that I agree with you.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (32:59)
Okay. I am slightly surprised. I'm surprised. Slightly surprised. Can I just say one more thing? Just my lap. Another hot take controversial line is, I don't know why this man came up from Brooklyn and was in DC, but you swing a sword with a smile and you're dressed like a whore. I was like, I was not expecting that.

Dave CDWA (33:05)
Yeah, please do.

I already know what you're gonna say.

Yep.

No, I wasn't either. I wrote that down too. My notes literally say, and you dress like a whore.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (33:30)
Exactly.

Dave CDWA (33:34)
Interestingly enough, actually changed Wonder Woman's costume from the New 52 version of that because they wanted to be less revealing and avoid showing her cleavage. Yet they still called her a whore.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (33:40)
Yeah, shit, pants.

But her kind of butt's hanging out a lot. Her butt's kind of... She wore pants if I remember. Yeah, in the beginning she had pants on. And then they changed it. Which I didn't... I did not hate the pants costume either. I actually liked the pants costume, but... But then they changed it back to more traditional.

Dave CDWA (34:06)
We're gonna talk about some funny moments. I have a couple. I also have written down here. So in the beginning when Green Lantern saves that woman that's getting chased by the Parademon and then he just leaves her on that roof and flies away and like off camera here just go, how am I supposed to get down from here? I thought that was hilarious. I guess this one not funny, but in that first encounter with Superman when Batman and Green Lantern are kind of like

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (34:09)
Yeah, guys.

Yes, he's like, how do I get back?

Yeah

Dave CDWA (34:36)
Superman sees him with the mother box and they start to fight over it and then the way that it all deescalates is while Superman is charging towards Bruce to deliver what would be close to a killing blow Batman just sort of like says a sentence that ends with the word Clark and it stops Superman in his tracks. I thought that was absolutely brilliant in such a cool way.

to start to set up that relationship between Clark and Bruce. And then when Superman did a quick X-ray vision and was like, okay, Bruce Wayne. So cool.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (35:13)
Yeah, put him out there. You didn't like it in Batman Superman when we had Martha though, right? I'm just making sure.

Dave CDWA (35:20)
Not the same, not even close. I don't even why you would bring that up. Are you trying to make me sidebar for 10 minutes about a bunch of bullshit? It's not similar at all. What are you talking about?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (35:26)
Just saying, it's kinda similar. Just cause guys don't like athleck,

Dave CDWA (35:35)
What did you say? Did you say Martha? our moms are both named Martha. Why would we fight?

Outrageous. Outrageously bad.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (35:46)
We are in hot takes and controversial, so.

Dave CDWA (35:49)
One of... I didn't know we were segmenting the episode like that this time. I was unawares. Yeah, man, know, Batman vs Superman is probably a low point in superhero cinema. Maybe the lowest. And I've watched some pretty awful movies, but that... I have never wanted to walk out of a superhero movie more than I wanted to walk out of that

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (35:53)
That's just how I segment my thoughts is all.

Yes.

Green Lantern? You forgot about that.

Dave CDWA (36:14)
I didn't forget about it and I don't hate it as much as Batman vs Superman.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (36:20)
Wow. OK.

Dave CDWA (36:22)
Ryan Reynolds is in it. I'll sit through almost anything Ryan Reynolds is in, to be honest.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (36:24)
Yeah, Ryan Reynolds is in it.

Rob Riddles, that sounds like a porn star. Him too, him too.

Dave CDWA (36:35)
Yeah, maybe. I don't really have any other fun facts to share that are actually interesting. yeah, go ahead.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (36:42)
I got a fun fact. got one. Did you know if you go to any kind of athletic competition, especially football, when you reserve someone's seats, there's a placard on their name that says what their name is.

Dave CDWA (36:54)
Yeah, that was a pretty lazy way to show that he was looking for his dad.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (37:00)
Yeah, I'm just sorry. thought that was funny.

Dave CDWA (37:03)
No, no, but that reminds me of something that I was gonna say that was a fun little cameo in the movie. During that scene, when Billy Batson is sitting in that seat.

Do remember the character Static Shock?

So Virgil, who is static shock, is sitting in the row behind Billy at that game. He's there.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (37:27)
I'm gonna have go back. I've completely missed that. I don't know how missed that.

Dave CDWA (37:30)
It's the version of him from the Young Justice, the TV show Young Justice, not like the DC Milestone comics version of Static Shock.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (37:34)
Okay.

That's that if it was that one, I would have noticed it. But OK, that's a cool cameo.

Dave CDWA (37:40)
Yeah, it's not that one. But still cool. Still cool. And then there's another, there's another weird cameo thing too. Let me go back. I have a bunch of this stuff written down. Full disclosure, some of it I stole from IMDB. I don't care.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (37:54)
That's fine. That's Shameless plug. Shameless plug. So, you know, it is what it is. We will take it. We will take it.

Dave CDWA (38:01)
IMDB sponsor us.

Maybe I don't have anything else written down. I thought I did. I there another cameo that was worth mentioning, but I guess not.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (38:19)
I love just like also just like dark side, just as a random aside. When dark sides like just walking around his like hands are behind his back. He's very majestic. And then he's just like so quick and vicious and brutal like in combat. Like I love it. I thought it was just awesome. It's just very menacing. I don't, I don't know, man.

Dave CDWA (38:36)
Speaking of Darkseid, that does remind me. So Abby tried to watch this movie with me. I say tried to, not because she didn't like it and got bored and left, but because she fell asleep again. And before she fell asleep, during that first time they showed Darkseid, there's like a long pause before he speaks at the very end of that scene. And when he spoke at the end of that scene, scared the shit out of her. Like she jumped.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (38:42)
Okay.

He, I mean, he's a legitimately like scary character design. Like even in animated form, I don't know, Darkseid's just like scary to me, I don't know. He's little scary.

Dave CDWA (39:15)
That means she's a woman in her 30s, man. She's not a five-year-old.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (39:19)
Well, if you remember from like episode two of this podcast, I've been terrified ever since that justice league fighting game on Sega Genesis. Remember that? What? I don't remember that game that we were talking about justice league task force or whatever. And dark sides in there. Yeah. They had some creepy music and he talks and it, I mean, I didn't, I thought she was.

Dave CDWA (39:31)
I do remember the game, Yeah, that is what it's called, yeah.

Okay, well, maybe you and Abby have more in common now. Abby, I'm not making fun of you if you've listened to this. I'm sorry, I love you.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (39:47)
I thought you were a Nintendo gal. She's a Nintendo gal. I don't know. But... Yeah.

Dave CDWA (39:49)
You

Okay, so one one thing we're gonna do that we should have started doing when we watched Flashpoint Paradox We're gonna start rating these movies on a scale of 1 to 10 and and half scores are allowed So we'll every time we release one of these episodes we will put our scores in the description of the episode so y'all can see and remember and So we can remember what we've what we've rated these movies so far. So

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (39:57)
Oof.

Dave CDWA (40:20)
The Flashpoint one I'll just throw in there because we haven't rated that one yet, but we are gonna rate Justice League War on a scale of 1 to 10 and You know what? I'm gonna give it a solid 6

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (40:23)
Yeah.

Alright, a one to ten.

Mmm.

Dave CDWA (40:42)
How are you not prepared for this? We talked about this ahead of time.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (40:46)
I don't want to go too high, but I don't want to go too low either. So I'd say probably like.

like, and I've seen some of these, like I'm looking at our list, so, but I don't, I don't want to really rate against the list. I'm going to.

Dave CDWA (41:02)
Man, I can't believe that you're like struggling this much to write this. We literally talked about this yesterday. What are you even thinking about since then?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (41:07)
No, no.

I even know. I just don't want to go too high.

Dave CDWA (41:16)
I've never seen someone agonize so much about putting a rating on an animated movie that's 10 years old.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (41:21)
Dude, because like, are we gonna adjust the scores later? Like, I don't, like, that's the thing. That's what I'm agonizing about. I don't wanna be like, it's, I don't wanna be like, it's a nine and then everything's like a nine. Like, no, I'm trying to like.

Dave CDWA (41:25)
No, we're not going to adjust the scores later. You're to, you're going to watch it and rate it.

Dude, it's not like you're signing a fucking mortgage, man. Just rate the movie.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (41:36)
All right, I'll give it a 7.5. If we can do point. yeah. yeah. No, this is, this is good. This is good shit. Yeah. This is good shit. Like, yeah, you're like, this is some severe hater. you hate it. I would also give flashpoint paradox in nine though too.

Dave CDWA (41:40)
Damn, that's high. All right. All right. I guess it's only one and a half higher than me. I think it's not that high. I'm just hating on it a little bit. I'm sorry.

I mean, that's what I would have given it to you. Okay, so yeah, we'll live on live on the podcast recording flashpoints of nine.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (41:59)
Yeah, we're in consistency. I'll give this on a 7.5.

Dave CDWA (42:08)
Alright.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (42:08)
It's funny our averages are the same. You just tank this. You just take this movie. don't know.

Dave CDWA (42:16)
Hey, you know what? We like what we like and I didn't like this as much as I like Flashpoint and it's just how it has to be. I do have, I have one final thought, cause I had to look at the entire slate of movies to make that spreadsheet for us to put our ratings into. Why in the hell has there not been a Nightfall movie? Why?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (42:21)
That's Okay.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Dave CDWA (42:39)
It's so easy to do, it would be so cool. I know they've done animated Bane, but why not just adapt Nightfall?

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (42:47)
Yeah, I don't know. That's definitely like, I know they did the killing joke later, which I heard wasn't super great. I feel like, I don't know, but yeah.

Dave CDWA (42:51)
Mm-hmm.

Like, shoving Damien Wayne down my throat, man, just give me Bane breaking that back. That's what I'm here for. I'm here for Bane backshots and nothing else.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (42:56)
Yeah, wow. Breaking that back. Once again, you should call, what is it Rob? Rob, whoever the porn star guy. If you need that for back breaking action. Yeah, I don't know why they didn't do that. I have no idea.

Dave CDWA (43:15)
Alright, well this is my official request to the powers that be at Warner Brothers DC. Please make a Nightfall animated movie so I can watch Bane break Batman's back. Thank you. And with that, we're outta here. So we'll be back in a couple of weeks with the final boys. I shouldn't say this is in a couple of weeks. So we get two episodes coming out in December. This will be our second episode in November. This one right here in December.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (43:31)
You

Dave CDWA (43:45)
We've got the final boys part. I hear this last trade's a page turner. Eric's already read it. He's ahead of Matt and I. Yeah, he already read it. Yeah, he was in the Discord today, he said that. You should catch up. You've missed quite a bit in the Discord, actually. Yeah, you might wanna hit that moderator channel. There's quite a bit in there. But we've got the wrap up to the boys, and then Matt and I are gonna read some Christmas comics.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (43:52)
You already read it? I know you already read it. I gotta check the Discord. I gotta catch up. Yes, I have.

Dave CDWA (44:13)
and talk about Christmas comics since it's the holiday season. So we're gonna be, I guess we'll say holiday comics. I don't know if they're gonna be Christmas comics. They'll be holiday comics. We'll put that out in December too. So that's what you've got to look forward to next month. And then if you've got thoughts on what we should read in 2025, we're still taking suggestions for what the Let's Read is gonna be for that whole year. So we've had some great suggestions.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (44:42)
Yeah, we have.

Dave CDWA (44:43)
We've also had planetary suggested, which we're not going to read. I wouldn't call that a great suggestion, but it was suggested. The rest of the suggestions have been great.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (44:53)
What what what?

multiple times planetariums with suggestions.

Dave CDWA (45:00)
You know what, honestly, points for tenacity. I can be worn down. I've been known to be worn down. you know, maybe on a long enough timeline, we end up reading Planetary, who knows. But until then, we appreciate you all checking us out, stopping by, listening to us ramble about music, movies, comic books. You don't have to talk music. That's Eric's other podcast. They talk about music.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (45:02)
Yes, yes.

Dave CDWA (45:29)
but we appreciate you stopping by and hearing us talk about stuff. And of course, chatting with us in the discord. So we'll catch you there until the next episode, which will be in a couple of weeks until then. My name is Dave. Take care of yourselves. If you're buddy, bye bye.

Matt - Of Sector 2814 (45:41)
And I'm Matt.

Peace.