97: The Boys Read The Boys Part 10

Summary
In this episode of Comic Dudes, hosts Dave, Matt, and Erik delve into two volumes of 'The Boys' comic series, exploring the character development of Butcher, the pacing and art of the series, and the overarching themes of morality and support. They discuss the emotional depth of Butcher's origin story in Volume 10 and the intense action and revelations in Volume 11, highlighting the series' ability to blend humor with dark themes. The conversation also touches on the impact of art and storytelling in comics, as well as the personal connections the hosts feel to the material. The conversation also touches on the differences between the comic and its television adaptation, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of both mediums. The hosts share their favorite and least likable characters, ultimately reflecting on the narrative's moral complexities and the anticipation for future volumes.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Theme Setting
02:49 Recap of Volumes 10 and 11
05:59 Butcher's Origin Story
12:01 The Boys' Current Situation
18:09 Climactic Confrontations
24:01 Art and Character Development
29:03 Final Thoughts and Reflections
29:25 Camera Confessions and Comic Reflections
30:17 Pacing and Character Development in Comics
32:20 Exploring Butcher's Backstory
34:10 Plot Twists and Character Arcs
36:37 Emotional Resonance and Impactful Quotes
39:23 Art Critique and Series Structure
41:34 Realizations and Retrospective Thoughts
43:59 Missed Opportunities and Character Arcs
45:35 Outrageous Moments and Humor
52:34 Outrageous Stories and Memories
54:50 Exploring Outrageous Moments in the Comic
56:07 Character Development and Plot Progression
01:00:03 Comparing the Comic and the Show
01:02:45 Character Favorites and Least Likable
01:10:20 Final Thoughts and Future Reads

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Erik - @NuclearIsLonely

Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Transcript

Dave (RIP Terror) (00:02)
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes, podcast about comic books and comic book related things. My name is Dave with me as always, my co-host Matt. Matt, how you feeling? How you doing?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (00:13)
I'm feeling great. I've been waiting to discuss these two volumes, but yeah, things are okay. They're all right.

Dave (RIP Terror) (00:22)
Good. Also with us, because it's a boys month, boys episode, our on again, off again, co-host Eric, how we doing, Eric?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (00:27)
you

It Only Took 70 Issues... (00:33)
You know, now that I'm here with both of you and we get to talk about this stuff, I'm doing okay.

Dave (RIP Terror) (00:39)
Great. There's a theme emerging where we all feel better when we come together to talk about what we have read about the boys. And I'm going to say it feels feels a little like a support group.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (00:49)
Yeah.

Starting to.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (00:54)
You

Was that on the list that you had a while ago? I can't remember the list.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (01:02)
No, but a support group could help with that list.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (01:04)
Yeah, that list was.

Dave (RIP Terror) (01:05)
Yeah, I mean, I think we're following up a pretty natural progression of like, I've identified the problem. I've diagnosed the problem. Now I'm dealing with the problem. So that's good. Anyway, if you'd like to connect with us and talk about your problems, you can follow us on Twitter. Our Twitter handles will be in the description of the episode.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (01:18)
I'm in the problem.

We can almost see the light.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (01:30)
You

Dave (RIP Terror) (01:32)
You can also follow our Instagram and TikTok accounts. The links to those are down there as well as the link to join our discord. If you'd like to talk about Stockholm syndrome, group therapy, Garth Ennis being abusive towards his readers or comic books, video games, sports, et cetera. That's that's an option as well. One more plug before we get into things. We also need to make a decision.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (01:42)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (01:43)
Hahaha

Dave (RIP Terror) (02:03)
what we're going to read in 2025. So if you've got some thoughts, join the discord. Tell us there. We'd love to hear them.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (02:12)
You've got some nominations already, I like how you're not even acknowledging them.

Dave (RIP Terror) (02:16)
We got one nomination that I have already. I'm not interested in. I've tried reading planetary before. No, thank you.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (02:21)
okay.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (02:26)
Good stuff.

Dave (RIP Terror) (02:28)
I do appreciate the suggestion.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (02:30)
Yes. It was a joke suggestion, think. Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (02:32)
Shout out Jared. Thank you for the suggestion. I will not be reading Planetary again. I didn't last long the first time. I can't imagine doing it for a full year, but I do appreciate that it's his favorite comic and I'm glad that he likes it.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (02:46)
That's awesome.

Dave (RIP Terror) (02:49)
But we're still in 2024, which means we're reading the boys. So if you forgot how these work or you're new here, here's what happens. We read a volume of the boys. In this case, we read two volumes because we were a little bit behind. I will recap what we read, hitting the high notes and some other miscellaneous things. I'll leave some stuff out. So if you want to go and read this for yourself, you'll experience some of this yourself for the first time that you didn't hear about in the episode.

Then we're going to talk about it. We'll go through the things that we thought were good about the volumes that we read or volume. the things that we thought were bad. And then the case of the boys, a lot of really outrageous, awful stuff to talk about too. And then we'll tie a little bow on top of it with our favorite and least likable characters from what we just read. As mentioned two volumes. So I think I joked last month that I was about to do like the recap of my life.

My the culmination of my life's work of recapping comic books was going to be then nay it is now my time Yeah, well I can tell you I skimmed quite a bit Skimmed quite a bit. I did my best But the first let me go here so we read two volumes where volume 10 butcher Baker candlestick maker Which is essentially the origin of butcher and then we read volume 11

Matt - Best At What He Does! (03:44)
Yeah, something like that.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (03:51)
There's a lot in these two.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (03:51)
You

Dave (RIP Terror) (04:12)
over the hill with the swords of a thousand men. Because there was a lot in Butcher's origin, I really stuck to the high notes there. So that recap will be shorter than volume 11s.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (04:29)
Makes sense.

Dave (RIP Terror) (04:32)
Are you ready?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (04:33)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (04:35)
Let me get a little sip.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (04:36)
Volume 10, Origin of the Butcher, that's all you need to know. It's moving on.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (04:37)
sip. I'm gonna tell you a quick fun, fun thing, two anecdotes about the boys. One of them was I was at the comic shop picking up my books. And I mentioned to my comic shop dude that we were reading this and that I was you know, nine volumes in or whatever. And he was like, just telling me how much he loved Garth Ennis. Garth Ennis is the best and he loved the boys and I tried to tell him I'm not

you know, at that point, especially after nine, I was not feeling it. And he was downright unhappy with me. He did not like, and I tried, he was like, well, why? And I was trying to articulate to him why, and I could just see in this guy's eyes that he was like, you're wrong. And I was like, okay, it's the first time I've had this interaction with him every other time he's been super cool. And that time he was like, this guy will, will die on the boys Hill. And I was like,

Dave (RIP Terror) (05:11)
Mmm.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (05:26)
Interesting.

Dave (RIP Terror) (05:34)
All of sudden, there'd be some books missing from your pull list soon. Mistakes are going to start happening,

Matt - Best At What He Does! (05:37)
Yeah, there's a squeeze

It Only Took 70 Issues... (05:37)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (05:40)
Random covers. Get ready. Yeah. Exactly.

Dave (RIP Terror) (05:43)
you you wanted cover a how about you don't get that issue? How about that? How about this you skip a month?

It Only Took 70 Issues... (05:46)
But why is the cover just completely ripped off my book? I don't understand.

Dave (RIP Terror) (05:50)
Why is there a post-it note in this one that says, fuck you.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (05:55)
Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (05:56)
I'll save the other anecdote for later. Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (05:59)
Okay.

Well, all right. I will say, if you all remember way back at the start of this, I showed up saying more often than not, I am a Garth and his fan, and I've actually gone in the opposite direction while reading the boys. But I'm coming back around. I liked last month's read of my favorite one so far, and I I don't want to. Let me get the recap and.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (06:16)
haha

Matt - Best At What He Does! (06:17)
You

Now put that cart in front of that horse. Put that cart in of

It Only Took 70 Issues... (06:32)
Hey, this is why I'm saving my other anecdotes so

Dave (RIP Terror) (06:36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I learned it by watching you. Volume 10 of the boys, Butcher Baker, Candlestick Maker. As previously mentioned, this is essentially the origin of butcher in in part one. We see a lot of butchers troubled childhood. He has a brother. They know that his dad beats their mom and butcher wants to kill his dad.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (06:39)
Hahaha

Dave (RIP Terror) (07:05)
There's just a lot of there's a lot of just like really. Like kind of awful stuff that you have to see and that butcher has to experience and things between him and his brother that happened. I'm not going to get into all the finer details there, but part one ends with butcher feeling like his only way out of this situation is to join the Marines. In part two. We fast forward not too much, but a tiny bit, and this is really about.

his time in the Falklands war. If you don't know what that is, go ahead and Google that because I didn't and I don't really know what it was either. I know it was a conflict in in England and with some it was with like the Nordic countries, perhaps over some some islands. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't look it up, so I'm glad you did more than me. Anyway, after the Falklands war ends, which he was only in it for like two weeks, he kind of washes out of the military.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (07:49)
1982. I had to look it up as well.

Dave (RIP Terror) (08:03)
and really just turns into a piece of shit like his dad until he meets a woman named Becky. And Becky helps Butcher's mom leave his dad. This is a pivotal moment for everyone involved. And Becky really is sort of like the driving force of what turns Butcher's life around at this time. When they actually are helping his mom

leave his dad, his dad is an absolute massive asshole in that scene. Butcher's like in his face, like just ready to beat him up. And then Becky talks him down and he asks her to marry him. And she, of course, says yes. And this is now in part three that that issue ends with the wedding of Butcher and Becky. Now we're into marital bliss. They're in Florida. They're on a vacation.

there's one night while they're there that butcher goes out for a walk and Becky stays in the room. There's some inferred sexual assault, but we know from previous reads what, what happened there. Becky ends up pregnant from that assault and, the birth of that baby, kills Becky, almost kills butcher who then stomps out this super baby.

Basically, like maybe like burst out of her stomach. It's got laser eyes You can guess who that was. I we've talked about it already And I think we'll talk about it more later After that butcher is taken to a black site by Vought They try to put him under NDA And the guy that offers it to him gets his eyes taken out by butcher This is where we see the first meeting of Mallory and butcher

Matt - Best At What He Does! (09:54)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (09:59)
So Mallory shows up, he hands Butcher Becky's diary and says, hey, just give it a read. I'll be back. This way Butcher can finally figure out what happened with Becky because he doesn't know what all happened to her until after she's dead and he's in this situation. So Mallory comes back and he more or less pitches the idea of the boys to Butcher. This ends this. This issue ends with Mallory.

taking butcher to like a cabin or something. And he just says, Hey, like, no witnesses, basically. And he just goes in there and just like kills a bunch of soups and sex workers. In part six, I apologize. This is super, super short what I wrote down here. But I do want to add that the entirety of volume 10 is told in flashbacks while butcher present day.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (10:46)
This is a great recap.

Dave (RIP Terror) (10:57)
is sitting in front of his dad's corpse. So we're winding down Butcher's Butcher's origin, really the origin of the boys here. So at this point, Mallory and Butcher had their first meet up with the legend who has black hair, as much younger version of of the legend, of course. Billy finally goes to see his mom. hadn't seen his mom for like 10 or 12 years. He kind of sets things right with her, apologizes for not being around.

And volume 10 ends with Butcher pissing in the casket and on his dad's corpse.

I need another sip.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (11:41)
Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (11:42)
Not only did piss, he pissed right on that man's forehead. Like, right directly on the forehead.

Dave (RIP Terror) (11:46)
We did.

You did. Hey, I was cheering him on the whole time.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (11:51)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (11:53)
Okay, we're.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (11:56)
Love it.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (11:58)
The amount of stuff that happens in 11. I can't wait to hear you recap this.

Dave (RIP Terror) (11:58)
Scroll down.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (12:01)
Yeah, I this.

Dave (RIP Terror) (12:03)
Yeah, again, there's stuff I left out, but I did my best here. So on the volume 11, over the hill with the swords of a thousand men. So this picks up directly pretty much where volume nine left off. Butcher is ready to make his move on the seven. He kind of sets things up, tells everybody what's gonna happen. And then while he's gone, Mother's Milk loses it.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (12:06)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (12:32)
when he sees that his daughter is doing mommy daughter porn with his wife and butcher just like storms off, like throws a desk out of the Flatiron building and then leaves. While this is happening, our president dies by by mauling of a wild animal who is in the White House as an exotic pet. This animal gets out because Vic the Veep, who, if you remember, is a vat plant.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (12:42)
It's

Dave (RIP Terror) (13:02)
Just like lets it out of the cage and it kills the president conveniently Yeah, it was a Wolverine yeah Yeah My apologies With the president dead Vought is now one step closer to activating soups in the military by Vic the Veep being now elevated to the president of the United States

It Only Took 70 Issues... (13:07)
Wolverine. Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (13:08)
Wolverine and it's the best the best at what he does. Don't forget that part. That cracked me up.

Dave (RIP Terror) (13:31)
And as we know, he is a pretty stupid son of a bitch. also responsible for one of my favorite lines in the entire comic still to this date. You know what it is. No, want to get my dicky suck.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (13:42)
Was it booby something? I don't know. was like... Yeah, it was something similar like that.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (13:46)
He starts to say it in that issue. He gets cut off.

Dave (RIP Terror) (13:48)
I know, I know, I loved it.

So on to part two.

Vought man. And Miss Bradley have brunch. Things get a little flirty. We never go back and explore that, but they did get a little flirty. And he tells her more about Vought's long term plans. There's also like a really awkward scene here where Huey still can't seem to have sex with Starlight and she's getting.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (14:02)
Yes, yes.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (14:08)
Mm-hmm.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (14:08)
this year.

Dave (RIP Terror) (14:28)
more and more frustrated with him. And in fact, at one point later on in volume 11, I think she says that he's been acting like a little bitch. Like she really like kind of like she says a lot of mean stuff about Huey, but, you know, fair play. Yeah. And then at the end of this issue, Homelander meets with a team that is essentially the Image Comics team, Cyber Force.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (14:36)
Yes.

She's earned it.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (14:56)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (14:58)
and he sends them to the Flatiron building to kill the boys. The boys make quick work of that team. Yeah, like, let's say like a one page like they're they're stomped, it's over. They're told that Vought sent them and they know now that it's close to the end game. There's also a team of Supes that are guarding Vought Man and Miss Bradley. And while they're

Matt - Best At What He Does! (15:04)
It's like the next page, wasn't it? Like they were getting stomped out.

Dave (RIP Terror) (15:27)
I guess they're in like a penthouse or something. I didn't quite get where they were. But while they're there talking about what's going to happen, they let it slip that homelanders got a plan. But before that man can ask more questions, Frenchie and the female drop in through a skylight or something. And shit is on. Over there, meanwhile, back the flat iron. Huey admits a couple of things he tells everyone about.

the time that Black Noir assaulted him when they were at herogasm, when he stuck his thumb up his butt. He also admits to stealing Maeve's file from that brothel from a few volumes ago, which this will lead us down a path that ultimately leads to the, guess it's a final resolution for our main story here. But before we get to that, Director Rayner is,

called to the White House and she's told not by the president, but by a vaught aid of some kind. Basically stop doing everything. Like everything you don't act unless we tell you to act.

There's also, and I didn't really, I didn't put this in my notes, but I'm gonna mention it because I'm looking ahead and you probably need context here. There's also another interaction between Huey and Butcher where Huey is just like, eh, I don't wanna be violent anymore.

Dave (RIP Terror) (17:09)
While, while looking at surveillance, butcher sees that a train in the deep kind of like snuck away from the seven. so butcher knows where to get a train. So he goes and he gets a train and he brings them to Huey starts playing a recording, of him talking about killing Huey's girlfriend from way back in volume one. And then the recording of them talking about bringing starlight and Huey's getting like more and more mad and eventually just kicks a train's fucking head clean off his.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (17:37)
Yes.

Dave (RIP Terror) (17:39)
just one of my favorite, favorite things that happened in this volume. Homelander's plan is now in full effect. The soups are going to DC. they're going to the Pentagon. They're to take over. and starlight is in the seven tower just trying to leave Maeve and her have a conversation. Maeve is then like leaving with starlight. They run into Homelander. Homelander starts to fight with Maeve.

We'll talk about this more later. All I remember is Maeve's head flying towards starlight and starlight, like kind of like, like grating your teeth and trying to fly faster. And that really is all that happened there. Yeah. Vought man also contacts butcher because it's at this point he understands what's happening here and Homelanders playing them against each other. Homelander sent that cyber force knockoff team to kill the boys and said to say that they had done it or that Vought had done it.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (18:12)
That was it.

That's all that happened.

Dave (RIP Terror) (18:39)
and now they know they kind of have to join forces a little bit, or at least put their differences aside temporarily to stop what Homelander is doing. butcher then tells mother's milk to release everything that they have on the seven, all the surveillance, the photos, the videos, Homeland are eating babies, all that shit. That into the world. They're headed to DC. We're final stretch.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (19:01)
Yep.

Dave (RIP Terror) (19:08)
issue five of volume 11, part five of volume 11. Things start to get really intense. Homelander shows up outside of Vought man's window of his penthouse. There's actually I I didn't write this down, but that panel where Homelander is just floating outside of the window with his red eyes, that's one of the coolest images in the entire comic so far, as far as I'm concerned.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (19:33)
He looks like Bison. That's what it reminded me of. He was just sitting there floating. I don't know. It was cool though.

Dave (RIP Terror) (19:38)
You're right. I liked it. Yeah, it was. And so Homelander kind of gives it to Vot Man a little bit. Like they just sort of argue back and forth. Vot Man shows no fear. And that sort of resolves with a whole lot of nothing happening. Like Homelander just like gets pissed and leaves like it was like a little kid just just mad that he didn't get his way, which is sort of a theme with with Homelander. Meanwhile.

Butcher and Huey are outside of the White House with all the military. We've put Butcher in charge of this military force. And they're just sort of waiting until morning to go in and attack, assault, whatever. And Mother's Milk is now starting to put the pieces together. He got access to VOT databases. He took some info they had on Black Noir.

way back I remember what volume this was but it was when they saw something about trying to teach you how to fly his jet and like some dude just like got destroyed by a laser or something and then they just like decommissioned the jet no one could figure out why that would be so mother's milk is now of the thinking that black noir had a lot more to do with all of this than anyone has previously suspected and now we're gonna bring it home

Matt - Best At What He Does! (20:43)
Hmm

Dave (RIP Terror) (21:04)
In the morning, that assault occurs. Butcher grabs a crowbar, tells Jiwoo to stay behind and just like walks in. He confronts Homelander in the Oval Office. It's littered with dead bodies, including Vic the Veep, who was the president. And while Homelander and Butcher are sort of squaring off and about to fight,

Mother's milk and Huey are on the phone talking through MMS theories on Black Noir. By the end of all of that back and forth with Huey and M.M. and at the conclusion of the conversation that was happening between Homelander and Butcher, Black Noir walks into the Oval Office. He takes off his mask, revealing that he is a clone of Homelander.

and has set this whole thing in motion to be able to kill Homelander himself. While this is happening outside, the military is absolutely shredding all these soups with like special ordinance and missiles attached to fighter jets. There's a lot of I was actually I was reading this on panels, which I don't know if anyone's ever used panels before that listens to the podcast, but it doesn't do a great job with splash pages.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (22:13)
You

Shut.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (22:28)
Mm.

Dave (RIP Terror) (22:28)
Unless you set the reader view to like do two pages at one time, but then you have to landscape the iPad is reading on an iPad, which I am. It doesn't look great. So those splash pages didn't read so great for me, but they were still fun to see everyone get their shit rocked. So Black Noir kills Homelander off panel. And Butcher gets away. He's now back with Huey in the military. We see Black Noir walk out onto the White House lawn holding just like the

Matt - Best At What He Does! (22:47)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (22:58)
part of the chest back and arm of Homelander. And then the entire US military and Butcher just absolutely let into this dude like machine gun fire and all kinds of crazy shit just shredding this guy. He's on his knees near death. And then Butcher gets up close and personal for his final revenge. And that is volume 10 and 11.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (23:25)
Great recap Dave. Yeah he does get it. He gets it.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (23:27)
and he gets it.

He gets his revenge.

Dave (RIP Terror) (23:33)
He sure does.

someone talk about good things. I need a break.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (23:42)
Good things. Yeah, you talk, you talked a little bit. Man. this was enjoyable. I thought, I thought this was actually enjoyable. Eric texted our group and was like, yo, this is going to go fast. At first, I didn't know if he's being sarcastic or not. couldn't, I couldn't pick it up via text, but then like I started reading it. I was like, no, this was actually pretty good. so.

Dave (RIP Terror) (23:49)
really?

You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (24:01)
No.

Dave (RIP Terror) (24:04)
You

Matt - Best At What He Does! (24:10)
I will say my number one good thing was Russ Braun, John McCrae and Keith Burns. That was the art team for volume 11. This should have been the art, the entire series. It was fantastic. It was actually a comic book to me in my opinion. I will give Derek credit. Derek and volume 10 was really good as well too. And I'm like, was he rushed the rest of the series? Like his volume 10 work was real good.

Did he evolve? Like, what happened? But I really enjoyed the art for both volumes, but I really liked the...

Dave (RIP Terror) (24:48)
Did the anchor change at all throughout the series? Because sometimes that can have an impact.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (24:51)
See it I should have took note of that Anchor is like a big big thing. That's oftentimes overlooked I was actually talking to to that with a guy about that at the comic shop the other day is just like the value of a good anchor that like most modern comics don't have like really hurts the art, but Yeah, I don't know that but the art team the creative teams were much better. I thought on these two volumes I really liked

Dave (RIP Terror) (25:12)
Okay.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (25:21)
the humanity of the butcher in volume 10 because previous to that, you know, he was just, you know, a calloused asshole, like punisher figure, not overly relatable, you know, has said some funny stuff, has some great moments, but like, he's just like this force of like violence or whatever. to see, you know, the, what helped, what formed him to become like that. But then Becky coming into his life and

I was really picking up on the, don't know why I thought of it, went back to like my history days, but just like, you know, in religion, I think it might be Calvinism, but like a predeterminism, like butchers like almost predetermined to be like his dad. looks like his dad. know that like even some of us, get that, like I've, I look like my dad a lot and I work at the same institution my dad used to work at. So people were like, you're your dad. And I'm like, no, I'm like completely opposite of my dad, you know, like in certain ways. So it's like,

I liked that Becky was like this force to break that in him and put him like on a different path. I thought that was really cool.

Dave (RIP Terror) (26:26)
Those types of generational cycles are real. You know, that stuff's so real.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (26:29)
No, I agree. I totally agree. Like it really is. like that whole volume, just like him, like, yes, that generational cycle that he's in, or is he going to break this generational cycle? You know, like it's a part of him, you know, it still is definitely a part of him. right, Black Noir turn.

saw it when we kind of were getting there, but I totally did not see that coming. had no idea. No idea. That was a complete shock and surprise and I was kind of delighted about that, to be honest.

Dave (RIP Terror) (26:58)
Yeah, I do neither.

I honestly can't believe that none of us knew that ahead of time, like in all of our years reading comics and now with the boys TV show being huge, like how is this not spoiled somewhere by someone? I don't know.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (27:08)
Y-Yes.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (27:16)
Well, I mean, they cannot end this way and the boys because they've already made a change to that character that makes this impossible. So there's no way to see it. But

Matt - Best At What He Does! (27:16)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (27:20)
No.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (27:22)
Okay. Okay, perfect. Perfect. That was going be my question.

Dave (RIP Terror) (27:24)
Right. Yeah, I mean, like they completely changed the origin of the character, killed him and got a new one already.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (27:31)
Yes, yes, yes. I'm, I'd be curious to know not that I'm going to go back and reread through all of it. But if there are the clues that you could have been like, fuck, we could have put this together or not.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (27:32)
A black boy, yes.

Why not? couldn't he fly the plane? That was kind of... I remember he like he just blasts like that dude with the rockets like you're talking about Dave. Is it because Homelander like can fly or something? Like I don't know if there's any rationale behind that or...

It Only Took 70 Issues... (27:58)
Well, I think Black Noir can technically fly as well.

Dave (RIP Terror) (27:59)
I don't know.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (28:02)
That's what I'm thinking. like, does he doesn't need to fly a plane? Is that like what we're kind of getting at?

It Only Took 70 Issues... (28:07)
I don't think he needs to, but I do think he took that opportunity to mow down a bunch of people for no reason.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (28:10)
Just torture dude? Yeah. Okay. If that makes sense then maybe in hindsight going back.

Dave (RIP Terror) (28:14)
can't remember now. Was there, in some of the flashback stuff when they had soups in wartime previously, did they have a version of Black Noir in the comics like they do in the show?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (28:29)
I think he was in there. don't think Black... I don't think Black Noir was in there, no.

Dave (RIP Terror) (28:30)
And maybe like, no, OK.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (28:30)
No.

I don't think so.

Dave (RIP Terror) (28:36)
Yeah, then I don't understand the plane thing either.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (28:39)
My last good, I'm gonna look for you audio listeners, you can't see this, but I'm gonna look directly in the camera. And I'm gonna thank my brother Dave for pushing these two volumes on us to like get us caught up and to get us back on schedule. My friend and my brother, these two volumes in my opinion, they paired like a fine wine and cheese together, my friend. Or for the more relatable common man like myself.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (28:47)
you

Mmm.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (29:08)
a McFlurry and fresh McDonald's fries out of the fryer. They paired together like that. So well done. Good work by you, sir. These were great to read together. And I'm glad we got one left now.

Dave (RIP Terror) (29:13)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (29:15)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Dave (RIP Terror) (29:25)
I would also like to tell something to our audio listeners. Matt, in fact, did not look right in the camera when he said that. He just did. He just found the camera. Everybody, he's everybody. He's found the camera.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (29:32)
He did not.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (29:33)
shi-

It Only Took 70 Issues... (29:35)
Hahaha!

Matt - Best At What He Does! (29:38)
Okay, I got a little cross. I might have had a couple of ciders before we got on live. What's up? Yeah, the smoke.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (29:41)
Listen, that.

Dave (RIP Terror) (29:44)
Hahaha!

It Only Took 70 Issues... (29:47)
That is the stare of a mixed sommelier.

Dave (RIP Terror) (29:49)
So what were you just looking at?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (29:54)
The zoom recording where you guys so I was looking at you, but not a I Was looking to see you

Dave (RIP Terror) (30:01)
I listening, I appreciate what he's saying and it's really nice, but when's he gonna look at me?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (30:05)
I was looking at your digital eyes, now you realize it. But that's all my good. I'll shut up now.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (30:06)
He was looking at your digital eyes, not your realize.

Dave (RIP Terror) (30:08)
Yeah, yeah, okay.

No, you don't have to shut up. Keep it coming.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (30:17)
I'll give you some goods. I I really liked reading both of these. I agree with Matt, they went together perfectly. I'm glad that we missed a month and that these got pushed together. Because yeah, it made perfect sense. Here's my other anecdote. I read both of these. And then I caught up on a bunch of back issues and caught up to current on a few series that I, you know, traditionally really like.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (30:26)
you

Dave (RIP Terror) (30:27)
Yeah, me too, honestly.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (30:45)
And none of them were satisfying to me. This is the only thing of the group that I enjoyed. Like I caught up on saga I caught up on something is killing the children, which isn't sort of a weird, like flashback arc right now after a big, you know, main event, I caught up on they just did a whole hack slash arc. None of those really like thrilled me. This was the most exciting thing I read in all of that, which is wild. It's wild to me. He's been it's been a Trojan horse this whole time.

Dave (RIP Terror) (30:48)
Hmm.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (31:07)
And it's delivered. And it's delivered.

Dave (RIP Terror) (31:15)
Wouldn't it be funny if this broke us and now all of sudden after this, we only could read comics like this to enjoy. Like our previous, yeah. Like our previously enjoyed works are just like, they don't hold the same anymore. We're just like, I, you know what? need some guy using the F slur at least once, once every five issues.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (31:23)
I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I'm not gonna go that far.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (31:23)
Well, something that's painful for 70 issues and then satisfying.

Yeah, that's it. This broke it.

listen, I think they only said it backwards in one of these this time. yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (31:45)
Yeah. Eric's gonna have to go and apologize to his comic shop owner and give him a hug.

Dave (RIP Terror) (31:46)
That's true, but it was sad.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (31:50)
Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna be like, I'll be like, listen, if he's Jeff, you were right. Okay. So what I liked about these two number one, the pacing was great on both of them. I think there are two different issues, right? One of them was like high action, everything coming together and the other one was a backstory and somehow the pacing on both of them move fast. They're easy to read. I like that.

Dave (RIP Terror) (31:52)
Yeah

Matt - Best At What He Does! (31:57)
You alright?

Dave (RIP Terror) (31:59)
you

It Only Took 70 Issues... (32:20)
Volume 10, I really like the way they fleshed out why Butcher is. I wasn't gonna say who Butcher is, but it's really why Butcher is in a way that I kind of wish had happened sooner, but reading these together, I understand why they put it where they put it. So that's cool. And I like that finally we got a character in the series that doesn't have some sort of weird ambiguous morals or vices or bad intentions. Butcher's wife, Becky.

I mean, you could argue that his mother and brother sort of fall into that category, although they were struggling with, you know, loyalty to an abusive father and sort of fighting their morals in that regard. It doesn't make them bad. Not saying that, but I think Becky as a character wanted nothing but to love butcher, be loved by butcher and to help him be the best possible person he could be. Finally, we get a pure good character. Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (33:17)
Finally.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (33:19)
In in Volume 11. Man that whole trade except well, once you get past the first issue that first one's a little goofy, but I just couldn't put this one down. I was I was like, like excited finding out what's going to happen next. I think

Matt - Best At What He Does! (33:30)
I do not

It Only Took 70 Issues... (33:40)
Everything we read up to this point, there's a certain level of, I guess it was kind of worth it to be able to have this payoff here. I really, I wish the whole series had this pacing. I love that. Of course there are some loose ends that need to be tied up, but really all of the pieces legitimately came together here. Like I, I'm like, they're like starting all these threads and all these characters that don't matter. It all did come together. And I think that's really cool. That, that twist.

reveal with black noir was cool. I also didn't see it coming. I love the concept that they built black noir as a more controllable safeguard for Homelander. And he turned out to not only be less controllable, but turned Homelander into this uncontrollable monster. And I loved that, that scene where Homelander

together the pieces of what happened. He's like, there's stuff I do remember there's stuff I don't. He's like, shit, the stuff I don't remember. I didn't do I just believed and assumed that I did. And there's this sort of internal conflict realizing what he had done, and what he thought he had done, but he didn't do. And I thought that was really satisfying. It was really interesting thing. And I loved butcher killing black noir at the end, but not just him killing black noir him.

recognizing that that's not what Becky would have wanted and showing his humanity in that in that ending a bit, which is why volume 10 read along with 11 makes so much sense because it all pays off in that moment you go, this is yes, that was a butcher origin story, but it was also the thing that brought us to that moment. A lot of really good stuff here. I thought it was cool.

Dave (RIP Terror) (35:25)
Yeah, I agree. agree. Actually, so I just looked up the reading chronology to see if maybe there was a reading order somewhere that put volume 10 earlier in the chronology. And there's not. But I did learn that Dear Becky didn't come out until 2020.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (35:44)
Yeah. We haven't read that yet, have we? That's the same. There's a new, yeah, there's a, yep, yep.

Dave (RIP Terror) (35:47)
No, it's like seven years after the series ended. Yeah, it's an eight issue.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (35:53)
So is that volume 12 or is that separate?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (35:55)
There's a... No, it's a separate miniseries. I remember seeing it in the store and I'm like, what is Dear Becky? Like, pack it in for next month. Another eight. I think we're good. I think we'll be good.

Dave (RIP Terror) (35:59)
Totally separate.

Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (36:04)
Hmm.

Dave (RIP Terror) (36:07)
Yeah. I guess I'm up. So my goods, I it's similar to both of you. The pacing of this, I thought was wonderful. These are far and away my two favorite reads of the series so far. So I'm not going to take a lot of time reiterating and restating all of what you said.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (36:07)
Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (36:19)
You're up.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (36:19)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (36:37)
So I'm just going to pick out a couple of smaller things that I had that I thought were good. There's one quote from butcher that I really, really liked when he was talking about Becky. And this was this was post post Becky's death. He said, it's like a knife and all I want to do is keep pushing it into myself. And I think that is such a horribly accurate and wonderful

analogy for what it feels like to lose someone that you love. Where you don't want to stop thinking about that person. You miss them, but you don't want to forget them. But thinking about them feels exactly like that. You know thinking about that loss is going to hurt. And it's just like taking a knife and driving it into yourself. So I thought that was...

One, it's sort of a rare moment for Garth Ennis in this series to give me something that's sort of touching like that, even if it is kind of disguised in something gross per usual. But that that stuck with me as I was reading. That scene where that super baby blew out of Becky and she died and butcher fights it. That was crazy, and I feel like I could have put it in the outrageous section, but I'll be honest, that fight was cool as hell.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (37:59)
Hahaha

Dave (RIP Terror) (38:01)
There's one there's one panel where butcher puts his hand on that baby's chest is like holding it down and the baby just like takes both of its hands and breaks both of his fingers backwards. There's just I thought it was a very. Compelling and interestingly drawn fight scene, because when are you ever going to have a grown man fighting a super baby and kill it? This is a one of one event.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (38:12)
It.

You

Dave (RIP Terror) (38:30)
I hope to never see it again, but I'm glad that I got to because I thought it was pretty cool.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (38:33)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (38:36)
And you won't see it in the TV show. And you won't see it in the TV show.

Dave (RIP Terror) (38:36)
And it's OK, because it was a huh? No, you sure won't. And it's OK to kill this baby because it's a murderous super baby. Yeah. And then my last good and this doesn't really fit anywhere, so I just put it in the good. But it's when Mallory and Butcher meet the legend for the first time and he gets a call from somebody and they say that it's Garth Ennis and he's like, he's never going to work at victory.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (38:45)
It's okay to go to.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (38:45)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (39:05)
Yes.

Dave (RIP Terror) (39:07)
I just thought that was funny.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (39:08)
Yeah, it was like no Brits or something like that.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (39:10)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (39:10)
Yeah, no, it's never going to work in victory comics. So that was funny, even though that is probably Garth and is just sort of being a crybaby. I don't care. It's still funny.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (39:12)
Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (39:23)
Negative. Bad. Didn't likes. My list is very short. Cause I know you all have probably way more insightful things, but I have one art complaint. It's an issue 64, which was the big splash pages of the battle, like the big superhero battle. That art was not good. Can we get Ryan Ottley on the phone?

Dave (RIP Terror) (39:23)
That's it. Those are my good.

Dave (RIP Terror) (39:49)
Heh!

Matt - Best At What He Does! (39:50)
Can we get some, I mean, we need to get somebody on the phone here. Just a phone, friend for that art, like as epic as all that buildup was, that was a let down on the art in my opinion. And then Garth Ennis, Garth Ennis is my second negative. Eric already said it. Like this, this, this series should be eight issues instead of 12 and it'd probably be actually pretty good. There's a lot of filler stuff, I think.

Dave (RIP Terror) (40:17)
You mean these two volumes?

Matt - Best At What He Does! (40:19)
No, I think like this whole series should be like eight volumes instead of 12. I feel like there's a lot of unnecessary filler that if he wrote this series, like he did these last two volumes, it'd be a lot more enjoyable, in my opinion. that was just like, I was like, this stuff is so good. Like, I'm the slowest reader out of all of us. Like I read like volume 11 in like one day, in between my kids and all the other nonsense.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (40:22)
8 volumes.

Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (40:47)
I sat down and I was like, I want to read this and not play video games or not watch TV. I want to read the boys. And that is a rare thing for me. So yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (40:55)
Damn. I love this too, because this is like bad in hindsight, like retroactively bad. Like by comparison, now you're like, you know what? I've decided that something bad is how fucking long all these other volumes were.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (41:01)
Yeah. Yeah, I get it.

Yeah, dude, it's just like there there was another arc in there that I we all thought was kind of good I don't remember what it is like last month We thought was good and I think there was one other one somewhere in there We're like, this is like a competently written comic book for once Yeah

It Only Took 70 Issues... (41:08)
Yeah

Yeah, there was one.

Dave (RIP Terror) (41:20)
Yeah, I thought here Gazan was fine.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (41:22)
Yeah, there was, it was like five or six that I think we all were like, yeah, kind of liked it.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (41:26)
So like, alright, mean, guess half the series is not bad. I don't know. But yeah. I don't know. That's all my bad.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (41:34)
all your bad. Those were definitely broad bads. I agree with that second one. This made me realize how good the rest of it could have been. So but I also appreciate that like, listen, we had to get through that to get to this, you know, right. Here's my bad. In in Volume 10. Initially, it was difficult for me to figure out

Matt - Best At What He Does! (41:48)
The pain, the pain, the agony.

Dave (RIP Terror) (41:49)
Hehehehe

It Only Took 70 Issues... (41:59)
which butcher they were talking about in the flashbacks because it was like his grandfather in the war and stuff. And I initially like made sense of it, but at first I was kind of like, wait, what's going on? How old is butcher? How's he fighting in world war two? And then it all made sense. But I also think the framing of that whole arc with him talking to his dead dad as a means of giving you all this exposition felt a little flimsy. Like I feel like the dead dad could have been part of the story, but

Matt - Best At What He Does! (42:01)
Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (42:27)
I feel like he would not have stood in front of his dad and given some of the details he did. It could have just been a flashback and then like that's also but it's fine. I'm not mad about it. I also think that although we learned a lot about Butcher, almost none of it was stuff we didn't already know. Like it was just more details about stuff that we already knew, which is fine considering the next volume.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (42:32)
the supervillain plot, like the whole plot. I'm gonna explain my motivations.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (42:56)
And then this one, this is going to be difficult to articulate. And hopefully it doesn't make me come across like a maniac here. I feel like they really glazed over what happened to Becky, which on some level I'm glad for, right? I don't want to see graphically what happened, but I also feel like it pulled a bit of an emotional punch on us. And I think, yes, we find out what happens as he's reading her diary entries.

which works. And I get that but I do feel like she deserved something better to really make the reader feel what happened, right? hate Homelander even more. And I don't want to see like I said, I don't want to see a graphic depiction. But I think there was an opportunity to build suspense, there be something you know, sinister is about to happen, we cut away, we see the aftermath, we see her reacting and you're feeling it along with I feel like

there was an opportunity to really make us feel that even more than we did. So

Dave (RIP Terror) (43:59)
You know, I actually don't disagree. When we got to that and then quickly moved past it, I was actually like, am I one? Am I like inferring the right thing? OK, yes, I am. And then then I very quickly and I just I passed by it quick, but I had the thought of why did we? Why do we just jump over it?

It Only Took 70 Issues... (44:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (44:23)
Maybe that's, you maybe that was just some editorial oversight. Maybe maybe they made the call. Maybe. We found a soft spot in Garth Ennis and that's where he draws a line.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (44:27)
Maybe.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (44:33)
is we found the line boys. I don't know, I've seen, I've read Cross before like, yeah, like I've read like, yeah, that he does not shy away from that in that book. that's why I couldn't, yep, couldn't do that book. Couldn't do that one. Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (44:35)
Mike, Mike, Mike, that might be it. I

Dave (RIP Terror) (44:38)
Well, so have I. At this isn't it's not. Yeah, no, there's quite a bit of raping in there. Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (44:41)
Yeah. Okay.

Well, I tried to think I'm like, is there something that they couldn't show because it would have given away the black noir twist? And I'm like, no, it wouldn't have given anything away. But, and then the only bad I have from volume 11 is although I think some of the setup is necessary, most of that first issue is goofy and a throw away compared to the rest. it could have been two pages in the next book. like just replace the gay alien dream thing with

Here's how the president died and sets everything into motion. You not a lot of bad though overall. Good. That's the kind of bad I want to give though is like literal like let me talk about how you approach the situation versus God, this made me hate Garth Ennis but

Dave (RIP Terror) (45:18)
for Catafalque.

Right. My bads are also kind of like like both of yours where there's there's not a ton here. In the first issue of Volume 11. There's like three panels where Butcher's getting ready to leave and then he calls for terror and then realizes that terror is not there. That fucking killed me. Primarily because I and a much thankfully much.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (45:53)
Hmm.

Dave (RIP Terror) (46:04)
Less intense scale anytime that I have had to like, know, dusty has had a couple of surgeries where she's had to stay overnight I have done that thing before and it sucks so much so that one was particularly bad for me, also one name two words james stilwell I didn't want to know his fucking name He's vat man. Can I just leave it at vat man? You don't have to use his government name

Matt - Best At What He Does! (46:33)
Fuck man.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (46:34)
Ha

Dave (RIP Terror) (46:36)
We had a good bit going here. So I didn't say it in the recap because I'm I was mad about it.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (46:42)
We almost made it to the end of the series without noticing the infat man.

Dave (RIP Terror) (46:45)
I know. Well, I'm still not going to refer to him as James Stillwell. It's a stupid name. He's Vought Man.

And then my last bad. And we touch on this already, but like, where's Starlight? Everything that happened in volume 11 was such high stakes and so important, and we just like. We we left her with an open thread and I don't understand why the only the only screen time screen time page time she got was like more.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (46:59)
Mm.

This is...

Dave (RIP Terror) (47:20)
nudity for the sake of nudity, and then like that one scene in the seven tower and then no resolution. And that was really annoying.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (47:28)
Maybe we'll find out in volume 12.

Dave (RIP Terror) (47:30)
Maybe. Also, I'd like to point out, it took me until volume 11 to put my finger on it, because I had been, there was something about naked starlight that was driving me nuts. I couldn't figure out what was off about it. But for whatever reason, when they draw her naked, they draw her some sort of 90s pinup.

Even though this happens, you know, 15 years after the 90s.

Well, I guess not 15, almost 15. mean, this, this came out in 2011.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (48:09)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (48:10)
Like.

Is that wrong? Should it not be?

Dave (RIP Terror) (48:19)
I don't know. It's just weird, because not every naked woman is drawn like Starlight is.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (48:25)
That's me starlights the idealized character here this is

Dave (RIP Terror) (48:31)
Yeah, well, I guess that we think about the age of our creators, then guess they are probably, yeah, okay. Well, thanks for reasoning that away.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (48:34)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (48:40)
hoping to stay mad about that a little longer, but that's fine. You and your damn logic.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (48:43)
You

Matt - Best At What He Does! (48:46)
If it makes you feel any better... Yeah? If it makes you feel any better, I just found out that Butcher didn't serve in World War II because his grandfather looks just like him. That completely went over my head. Until he said it, was like, I he's been around since World War II as well, like everyone else. No. No. No, I'll be stupid with you any day, Eric. Don't you worry about that.

Dave (RIP Terror) (48:53)
lol

It Only Took 70 Issues... (48:54)
Yes, that's what I'm saying!

that makes me feel better because I'm like, am I stupid? Because I Okay, good. No, it was just confusing.

Hell yeah. Listen, if I'm going to be stupid with somebody

Dave (RIP Terror) (49:10)
Hehehehehe

Matt - Best At What He Does! (49:14)
I appreciate you. You know what's not heartwarming? My first over the top.

Dave (RIP Terror) (49:16)
I love this. This is very heartwarming to see.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (49:18)
Ha

Okay.

Dave (RIP Terror) (49:23)
All right.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (49:25)
Evil baby homelander killing the doctors, not heartwarming. Like, torching all these dudes. I thought that was pretty wild and outrageous. My note was for all you NFL fans, I know we hate this guy, but I wrote specifically for Dave Huey pulling an Adam Vinatieri and kicking off A-Train's head. The legendary Patriots kicker, Viggo kicker. For all of us AFC East chat bros, there we go. And...

Dave (RIP Terror) (49:29)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (49:29)
No?

Dave (RIP Terror) (49:46)
Thanks. Thank you.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (49:54)
My last outrageous was Butcher literally pissing on his father's forehead. In the age of last issue of Dear- it's not Dear Becky, the last issue of Butcher Baker, whatever, volume 10, good stuff. It's outrageous stuff. It's pretty outrageous.

Dave (RIP Terror) (50:03)
No, it's volume 10.

That's, you put that as outrageous.

I felt that that was incredibly satisfying.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (50:14)
I mean, well, it's still... Yes, it's totally consistent. It's still a little outrageous. I don't know.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (50:15)
Yeah, it felt tonally consistent.

Dave (RIP Terror) (50:25)
I feel like, look, I.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (50:27)
I'm getting, I'm getting it analyzed right now. Look here, look here.

Dave (RIP Terror) (50:30)
Regardless of the context as to why it's happening, I'm willing to bet that across the globe, hundreds of thousands of people are getting pissed on every single day.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (50:44)
Like they're corpses on their foreheads?

Dave (RIP Terror) (50:46)
I said, regardless of context, hundreds of thousands of people are likely getting pissed on in the world every day. So I don't feel like butchers dad getting pissed on. Is that outrageous? That's all.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (50:48)
You

Matt - Best At What He Does! (50:58)
Did they pay for it though? Did they pay for it? You got... Once again. That's what I'm I was just...

It Only Took 70 Issues... (50:58)
You think hundreds of thousands?

Dave (RIP Terror) (51:02)
You don't have to pay for it. Two consenting adults can have a piss kink, man.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (51:07)
But also, know, Matt, you've got kids, you know, sometimes that shit happens.

Dave (RIP Terror) (51:11)
Yes! Yeah! Sometimes kids piss on you.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (51:14)
Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (51:15)
It's true, not on my forehead though, I don't have voice. It hasn't happened yet. Not going to watch it.

Dave (RIP Terror) (51:22)
I will tell you, I have an outrageous piss story if you'd like one.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (51:24)
I feel like we're in this bubble now, so yes, please share.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (51:25)
yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (51:28)
This goes, this goes, this goes way back to my days living in Erie. Actually, this was, this was like.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (51:33)
Okay. God, I feel like I know what's coming. I feel like I might have one. Please go ahead.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (51:34)
The origin story.

Dave (RIP Terror) (51:41)
This was before I even moved out of my mom's house for the first time. I was still a teenager living at home. And I remember getting up one morning to go to the bathroom and I was very, very tired. So I'm in the bathroom. I didn't close the door all the way apparently, but I'm standing in there.

Doing what I do, you know, I've got I've got it in hand. There's a stream. There's a steady, strong stream. And one of the cats had come into the bathroom and for whatever reason, decided to jump up on the toilet. And that that cat got absolutely drenched in my piss. And then it ran away. So then it took. Yeah, like it was an absolute nightmare.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (52:22)
note right it through the house.

Dave (RIP Terror) (52:27)
But unfortunately, I do have a story with which I can say I pissed on a cat.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (52:31)
That's pretty awesome.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (52:34)
thought you were gonna tell a story about a certain individual you and I both used to know that frequently would just randomly whip his dick out and piss on people.

Dave (RIP Terror) (52:44)
Yeah, no, I wasn't going to tell that one.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (52:45)
All right, I'll back my outrageous thing. Doesn't seem so outrageous anymore.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (52:52)
I just distinctly remember one time we had gotten out of the car like there's three or four of us and we were walking into a house and all of a sudden I felt something splash on the back of my legs and I turn around and he's just walking and pissing and we were like, what are you doing? And he was just laughed and we were like, what the fuck?

Dave (RIP Terror) (53:07)
Yeah, he did a lot of stuff like that. I don't know if he's even still alive.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (53:10)
Yeah he did.

I don't know either.

Dave (RIP Terror) (53:15)
Last time I got a proof of life confirmation was years ago and he was working at some like auto repair place back at Erie.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (53:24)
It's been over 20 years since I've heard.

Dave (RIP Terror) (53:30)
Anyway...

It Only Took 70 Issues... (53:31)
you want some outrageous stuff from the book?

Dave (RIP Terror) (53:35)
I do get less outrageous stuff that I've lived and that you've lived.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (53:36)
Yeah, yes, I, I'm gonna just drop this panel right here into our chat. Because I don't want to say it. But there is a moment when butcher gets to see his dead dad, that the funeral guy says a really ridiculous thing that I laughed and then felt bad for laughing because it's just the silliest word. Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (53:59)
How did I miss this?

Dave (RIP Terror) (54:02)
Well, you put it in discord. I was looking in the Riverside chat. I'm like, where where is it? All right, hold on. yeah, yeah, I saw that and then quickly just tried to prevent I didn't see it. You can't say that one. This outrageous moment is just for the three of us.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (54:04)
Yes. no, no, no, it's in discord.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (54:04)
Yeah.

Holy crap.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (54:15)
I was like, good Lord. No, not going to say it.

Yeah. He he uses a really creative racial slur. And then one of my other outrageous over the top moments is in volume 10. Butcher being a sexy construction worker. He's got no shirt on. He's the only one that and I was like, Damn, look at this guy. Of course, him killing the super baby that I mean that that was that the Wolverine killing the president and also

Matt - Best At What He Does! (54:23)
God bless you, Garth.

Dave (RIP Terror) (54:24)
I'm

He does.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (54:36)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (54:50)
the cover of that issue being a legitimate Wolverine cover just with an actual Wolverine. So it's so stupid, but was also very on brand. Mother's Milk, when he finds out about his daughter and wife doing porn together, goes full Hulk. Like he's just huge, just massive, like grows 10 times the size he normally is. And it's like full on Hulk. And I was like, okay.

Dave (RIP Terror) (54:57)
Hehehehehe

Matt - Best At What He Does! (54:59)
You

you

It Only Took 70 Issues... (55:20)
I don't know where that came from. And then

Dave (RIP Terror) (55:21)
You know, I but back on that for just a second when he's on the phone with Janice, his daughter. Where is he? Is he at his mom's house? Because like he's like holding a door shut and like someone's yelling from inside that apartment or room or wherever he's at. I had no like that. No, he left. He left the flat iron.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (55:33)
good question.

thought he was at the flat iron.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (55:43)
I thought it was the flat R2.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (55:48)
Yeah, I don't know.

Dave (RIP Terror) (55:51)
I was very confused. I was very confused why that even happened. It didn't do anything to move the plot forward.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (55:51)
I don't know.

None of that stuff did. That whole little plotline.

Dave (RIP Terror) (56:02)
Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (56:07)
I don't know, didn't didn't add anything. Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (56:08)
Yeah, just things that happened. I guess you know what, that's actually sort of what real life is like. Sometimes things happen to me that don't really move my story forward. They're just things that happened to me that day.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (56:14)
Yeah, I guess so.

I mean, that would be a really weird thing not to move your story forward. But, you know.

Dave (RIP Terror) (56:28)
Why, why, why?

It Only Took 70 Issues... (56:29)
I don't know, I feel like that would be a significant moment in your life, although you could just be like, all right, moving on.

Dave (RIP Terror) (56:33)
well, yeah. Yeah, I just meant like, you know, sometimes things happen and they're not really meant to do anything in terms of, know. Anyway. Whatever.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (56:40)
yeah.

Yeah. My last one is sort of a two parter. Why they introduce a couple new superhero groups. And they again have all these bizarre like sexually explicit names. And I'm like, why would superheroes pick these bizarre names? And then this one of them muzzle tov talking backwards and sneaking and slurs I was like, my god.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (57:05)
Yeah, god. no.

Dave (RIP Terror) (57:08)
Yeah, dry hump was my favorite. Who's just a guy in a big suit of armor? I just didn't understand it. But anytime you say the words dry hump, I'm probably going to laugh.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (57:12)
you

It Only Took 70 Issues... (57:12)
dry up.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (57:14)
You

Dave (RIP Terror) (57:21)
It's a funny word.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (57:24)
dry hump.

Dave (RIP Terror) (57:26)
See? It's funny. Look at you, you're smiling. You couldn't even say it without smiling.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (57:26)
That's what.

my god.

Dave (RIP Terror) (57:33)
My outrageous. Homelander skull fucking the dead VPs head in the Oval Office. I don't know why, but it was so nonchalant like he tosses the head to butcher, but you looks at it. He goes there dickhole in here. And then all there's goes, yeah, you know how it is. And that's it. Like no man, I don't know how it is. Yeah, what do you mean? The black noir death scene that was.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (57:41)
You

You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (57:53)
Yeah. Moving on. Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (57:55)
Big eyes? Yeah, exactly.

Dave (RIP Terror) (58:02)
particularly satisfying, but also sort of hard to look at, but also still really satisfying, but ultimately very outrageous. I share most of what you guys have already listed as outrageous items, except for that super baby fight scene with Butcher. I am going to stick by my assertion that that was good, not outrageous.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (58:23)
No, there was Super Baby fight scene, but there was Super Baby in like flashback as well too. That's what I was ranking.

Dave (RIP Terror) (58:29)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yours, I know, yeah, yours is, I'm not talking about yours. Eric mentioned the super baby fight scene. Unless you're talking about the birth, don't know, maybe I misunderstood.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (58:35)
did he? Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry,

It Only Took 70 Issues... (58:36)
Yeah, alright.

No, it was just the killing of the super baby. I was like, damn, okay. Yeah, I'm not necessarily saying that one isn't good, but it did feel pretty outrageous.

Dave (RIP Terror) (58:41)
Okay. No, that was a good for me.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (58:41)
You

Dave (RIP Terror) (58:48)
Okay. Yeah, fair. We can we can both be right here. And then my last outrageous this one subtle, you may not have even noticed. But the way they drew butcher's mom after she got that glass eye incredibly disrespectful that glass I was looking anywhere other than where she was looking at all times. They did they they went to great lengths to make sure you knew which I was the glass eye at all times.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (58:48)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (58:52)
Yeah, I think so.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (58:52)
These should not be truly exclusive events.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (58:55)
Yeah.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (59:07)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (59:09)
I didn't know that.

Dave (RIP Terror) (59:16)
I couldn't unsee it once I noticed it. was immediate. noticed I was like that. I hate this. This sucks. Made it look stupid. I know I've I've known people with glass eyes before. They didn't look like that. They're surprisingly realistic.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (59:21)
Thank you, Art team. Thank you, Art.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (59:33)
No.

went to high school with a kid with a glass eye. And I remember being on the bus one time and there was this older kid that used to like bully me give me a hard time and he was like, Hey, you're friends with that kid with the glass eye, aren't you? I was like, Yeah. And he's like, I want you to steal it for me. And I was like, what? And he was like, Yeah, I want you to steal his eye. And I was like, how would I even get it? And he's like, just take it when he's not looking.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:00:03)
You

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:00:05)
Which to this day, I still think about and I laugh because it's one of the funniest fucking things anybody's ever said to me.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:00:06)
Please.

Did you go to school with Rocket Raccoon? what the fuck? Steal his leg? Dude, what? Like steal his leg? Yeah. my god.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:00:16)
Right? That's what I was thinking too.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:00:18)
no shit. But it is like that movie. No, no.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:00:24)
I have, I have two other just things to say about what we read. that didn't really bucket into any of our three, our three categories. And one, we kind of already talked about a little bit, but as far as the show, the boys, it really just has to do whatever the hell it wants. Like it's so, it's so different from, I didn't understand how much it had deviated from the comic until we had gotten deeper and deeper and deeper into the comic.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:00:45)
to.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:00:54)
And there's just no shot that can do anything that we have read. Like it is what it is. And I think season one, it was already too far into different territory. I had no idea. But. If I'm being honest with myself, I do, I'm starting to think the comic is actually better than the show. If.

You strip out like the homophobia and the slurs and the racism and the ableism and like some of that awful shit. I think in terms of the story that it's telling, I'm actually having a much better time with the comic. And I think that's due in part to the fact that the comic isn't beholden to wrap ups and pacing like a seasonal TV show is. They've got eight episodes. You got to tell that story in eight episodes.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:01:28)
Ages older.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:01:51)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:01:51)
Yes, you can leave some things to flow into subsequent seasons, but it is much harder to like take a hard left or a hard right in a show versus in a comic. And because comics are just drawn things and it's all just crazy and made up if you want it to be, there's so much more freedom in the medium versus having to plan out and script and shoot and edit and produce a full TV show or a full TV season. Man, I think that's a more interesting story in the comic form.

from being honest. The twist here is so satisfying.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:02:25)
I really, for the first probably six volumes, thought consciously about how much better I thought the show was because I thought they did better with character development and stuff. And I do now look at it and I go, this is a more compelling story. This is something the TV show could never pull off.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:02:41)
Mm.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:02:45)
Yep, and don't get me wrong, the TV shows fine. I've enjoyed most of the seasons until the most recent one. I really like Gen V. But it's it's it's a different thing and that's okay.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:02:47)
Sure.

I did too.

It's kind of like they took the names of the characters and the loose concept of what this comic is and just made a new story.

Yeah, interesting. mean, I mean, I guess Walking Dead kind of did that same shit.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:03:12)
I haven't read all of walking dead, I had to hear God. Sorry, Matt.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:03:14)
me neither.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:03:16)
You're welcome boys. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:03:21)
Hahaha!

You know, this is the first time I didn't have to remind everyone that you chose this because no one was unhappy. And yeah, you deserve that man. Good for you.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:03:34)
It all came together. It's all coming together in the end. I knew it was gonna end like, I knew we'd land the plane. I knew it was coming down like this.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:03:36)
No, didn't. No, you didn't. Don't give me that. No, you didn't. Hey, I'm excited for volume 12.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:03:47)
Yeah, I might read it this weekend for sure.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:03:49)
They ain't doing that. You've said that so many times after we've had a good conversation. You'd be like, I'm ready to read this. You ain't reading that shit this weekend.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:03:55)
You're right, the day before I read it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:03:57)
I actually started it after I finished 11 and I was like, no, stop, don't keep going.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:04:04)
All right, favorite and least likable.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:04:07)
Easy, easy favorite was Becky to me. I thought Becky, like, like everything Eric said a bit ago, just like the first good altruistic, not piece of shit character in this whole thing. was, I would like to see her story going a little bit longer, but obviously it makes sense and kind of sucks that she had to be a little bit of a plot device, but yeah, she's cool. I like that character.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:04:10)
OK.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:04:33)
And she didn't take shit from his dad too, which I liked. Like she stood up to his dad too. Like she's super loving and super nice and super supportive. What anyone would want out of a spouse or whatever. And, but also didn't take any crap from his dad. So I was like, she's just kind of cool. So.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:04:48)
I think she is the only character in the series that there is no question about her goodness or morality or like there's nothing morally questionable or anything to dislike about her.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:04:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. That's it.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:05:05)
that's intentional. She's kind of like the angel on butcher's shoulder because he's got a lot of devils on the other one. I also chose Becky. She not only is a good person finally, but the ideal companion. Like how could you not want that person in your life? You know, I love a good villain and maybe this is I God, I can't believe I'm saying this. Maybe it's a testament to the series, but this series makes me root for good. I want the

the good to prevail and to overcome because I'm it's really painted such a picture of how bad it can get. And so she she was something that I latched on to and when I want that person to succeed and I want her to help butcher to succeed. I think in the end, she kind of does. So

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:05:55)
Go back to our recording on October 21st. And Eric co-signed with me then and he just co-signed with me now. We need more white hats and we need more black hats. There's too much confusion in this. We need definitive characters. It's coming together. My plan is coming together. It's all working out, guys. Stick with me. We'll get there.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:06:13)
Yeah, he made you want it.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:06:25)
As someone who is incredibly comfortable in gray spaces. My favorite was butcher.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:06:28)
You

Okay.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:06:36)
Being able to see the upbringing that he had and understand his motivations a little bit better and then get to see the version of him that is still buried somewhere in there and that version that he is when he's with Becky. One, makes me, looking back at what we've read, it makes me mourn the character a little bit that I just got to know.

very, very briefly, like this good version of butcher. It sucks that that guy's like stuck inside and buried under, know, mountains and mountains of grief and probably a lot of misplaced anger and aggression and all of those things. But also, I love a good revenge story. And I got like the origins. got basically I got to.

experience this along with Butcher and really understand better why he is the way he is and what he's doing and why he's doing it. And then within what felt like moments, I also got to experience the satisfying end to that need for revenge. So while maybe he wasn't the character that I like the most, he was my favorite character in these two volumes that we read because he was far and away the most interesting.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:08:00)
I mean, I took my notes in two halves. Volume 10, I wrote Becky and I decided that overall that would be my favorite. But for volume 11, it says, I feel like it has to be butcher. So.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:08:10)
I feel like we didn't nominate Butcher that many times either. I don't... Like, when we would do these, like, I don't think really people nominated him a lot. Yeah. I don't know why that's so funny. It's true.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:08:14)
Only a few times.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:08:16)
Yeah, he was never really he was always doing something shitty, man

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:08:20)
Yeah.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:08:26)
least likable home stretch.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:08:30)
I will refer to him as Vaught Man.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:08:35)
Thank you.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:08:38)
I just, really, it really irritates me. Like people that are in like high positions of power, they can make change and just do shitty things. And like, clearly like, and like sub bullet to that is just like manipulating things behind the scene. And there were so many just like civilian casualties that came from like the seven. Like, it's not just like the superheroes killing each other. It's like, you have to think of all the like thousands of people who have died because of

like Vought and people like him. And I'm just like, yeah, we got Black Noir. Like Black Noir obviously is like a horrible person, like Vought man is someone who's like relatable in real life. And like, I don't like people that are like that is also.

Fuck you, James Stowell.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:09:27)
Yeah, get his ass.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:09:29)
You

went back and forth. was like, is it, Homeland or Black Noir or whatever? And then I was like, no, it's, it's sort of the,

I was gonna say like political machine, but it's really got nothing to do with political, it has everything to do with profit machine that is Vaught, because they created all of this, and all of it for money. And they put human beings aside, whether they're soups, or regular people. And none of this shit would be happening. None of these awful things would be happening. Nobody would be trying to cover up or protect terrible acts and things. If they had had a little bit of, you know,

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:09:54)
all of this.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:10:15)
conscience and compassion. So fuck thought.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:10:20)
Well, you've both given really insightful and well thought out responses. And, I'm sad to say I will not be continuing that trend. as a, as a man, with, serious dad issues, who is actively in therapy for some of them, my least likable is butcher's dad. I wrote it down before I even finished volume 10 and there was nothing that was going to change that in volume 11. And that's probably also part of the reason why I picked butcher as my favorite.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:10:28)
Yeah

fair.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:10:50)
yeah, I his dad is just the fucking worst. Think about, think about all the people that his dad inadvertently got killed because of the way that he treated his, his mom and then how that absolutely broke butcher. You know, but you're eventually turned into a version of his dad post getting kicked out of the military. you know, it's just, it's like, you know, we, mentioned earlier, but those, those cycles of suffering.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:10:53)
Yeah, absolutely.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:11:18)
that exists within, you know, families. sometimes I mean, obviously his dad was an alcoholic and alcoholism is a hereditary disease. And, you know, butcher talks about that a couple of times in volume 10 about how he can't drink. And, know, that was a central to Becky sort of opening the door to lead butcher in was like, Hey, you gotta like, you can't do this around me. I won't stand for it. I don't want to be around it. so yeah, butchers dad.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:11:47)
Yeah, I think if it was just volume 10, like absolutely Butcher's dad and Homelander are like just like as bad as a character could get in this whole series. So.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:12:01)
So yeah, that's that. That's volumes 10 and 11 of the boys. We got one left. It'll come out in December. And we do need to make a decision on what we're gonna read in 2025. And if we don't get any suggestions, we'll just pick it ourselves. Well, Matt won't because he picked the boys. No, I'm just kidding. I'm actually glad we did this now. I'm feeling really good about it. Yeah, I'm feeling really good about it. Good on you, Matt.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:12:19)
Hmm.

I am too.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:12:27)
Knew it the whole time. Knew it the whole time.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:12:29)
No you didn't.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:12:30)
can't wait till we read volume 12 and come back and we're like, nevermind, we were wrong. We were fucking wrong.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:12:32)
He was like, aww. Fuck you.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:12:34)
hahahahah

Good chance that happens. One thing about Garth Ennis that I've learned is just when I think things are starting to get better, they get much, worse. well, yes, I'm not laughing at, I'm not laughing at abusive relationships. I'm laughing at the way the comedic timing of that and the sad truth of it all, I guess. Anyway, thanks y'all for checking us out once again. Yeah.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:12:47)
mean, that's how abusive relationships work.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:12:51)
the whole cycle of this whole thing.

With that!

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:13:08)
Not to end on a downer or anything, but we're we're this might be our longest episode yet I'm not surprised because it was two volumes and a lot to talk about but anyway, this will come out in A week or two. We'll get two out in November. We'll get two out in December We're back on track if you have some suggestions on what you want us to read in 25 Please join the discord. Let us know or follow us on Twitter. Let us know there Until next time. My name is Dave

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:13:15)
Yeah, it's two volumes.

And I'm Matt.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:13:38)
And I'm Eric.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:13:39)
Take care of yourselves, everybody. Bye bye.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:13:42)
Peace.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:13:43)
Bye, thanks Matt.

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:13:45)
Yeah, thanks Matt. This is good. I take back all the times that I said bad things about you both to your face and behind your back.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:13:54)
And there was a lot.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:13:54)
It is a-

Dave (RIP Terror) (1:13:57)
you

There wasn't a lot, just a little. Yeah, I can edit this out later if I need to.

Matt - Best At What He Does! (1:14:01)
Are we still recording? gosh.

It Only Took 70 Issues... (1:14:01)
No, there was never.