95: The Boys Read The Boys Part 9

Summary
In this episode of the Comic Dudes podcast, hosts Dave, Matt, and Erik dive into Volume 9 of 'The Boys,' titled 'The Big Ride.' They discuss the evolution of characters, the intertwining backstories, and the overarching themes of redemption and conflict. The conversation also touches on the historical context of World War II within the narrative, the dynamics between The Boys and The Seven, and the outrageous moments that define the series. The hosts share their thoughts on character development, particularly focusing on Hughie, Butcher, and Mother's Milk, while also addressing the controversial themes present in the comic. As they wrap up, they reflect on their predictions for future volumes and the direction of the story.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Reconnection
03:01 Comic Reading Structure and Expectations
06:01 Volume 9 Overview: The Big Ride
08:48 Character Backstories and Development
12:13 Conflict and Confrontation
15:10 Themes of War and History
18:05 Character Relationships and Dynamics
20:53 Personal Reflections and Insights
24:04 Final Thoughts and Conclusions
28:24 The Role of Editorial Influence in Indie Publishing
29:06 Personal Engagement and Subjectivity in Comic Reading
30:17 Controversial Themes and Character Portrayals
32:01 Complex Morality in Character Relationships
33:28 The Challenge of Gray Morality in Storytelling
35:15 Nostalgia and Changing Perspectives in Comics
37:28 Pacing and Structure in Comic Series
40:27 The Impact of Collected Editions on Reading Experience
42:17 Personal Preferences and Comic Enjoyment
45:32 The Enduring Appeal of Certain Comics
47:16 Comic Book Recommendations and Nostalgia
47:54 Controversial Themes in 'The Boys'
49:27 Outrageous Moments in the Story
55:01 Character Development and Relationships
59:54 Final Thoughts and Future Expectations

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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Transcript

Dave (00:01)
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes, podcast about comic books and comic book related things with me, as always, my esteemed and not so great at math co-host Matt. Matt, how are you?

Matt - CDWA (00:14)
Man, you don't got to pull stuff from the streets out on the podcast, but I'm doing great. I'm happy to be back. I've needed this. I've needed to reconnect with my boys. It's been a bit went through a bit of a rough patch there. So I'm, I'm happy to be here today.

The (sad) Boys (00:18)
You

Dave (00:32)
We're happy you're here too. Also with us, because it's a boys episode, is our side piece, Eric. Eric, how are we doing?

The (sad) Boys (00:38)
I am doing well, glad to be back. And honestly, I know we basically missed a month, but we read two months worth of comics this time.

Matt - CDWA (00:47)
you

Dave (00:49)
Wonderful segue into how Matt is bad at math. Before we read this, after we did the last boys episode, which if you remember, if you were here for that was probably our least favorite boys comic yet. Highland Laddie Matt said, yeah, this next one's pretty long. It's 10 issues. No, no, no. It was 12 and one trade. That's a year's worth of comics. Yeah. Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (01:10)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (01:15)
It sure felt like it.

Dave (01:19)
Indeed, it did. So before we get into that, just as a reminder, you can follow us on various social media platforms. We are all three on Twitter. I will never call it X. Our Twitter handles are in the description of the episode. You can also follow the podcast on TikTok and Instagram. And we have a discord if you'd like to join the discord and connect with us there and talk about comic books and comic book movies and sports and all kinds of other stuff. If you're new.

to the podcast or new to a Let's Read. This is how they work. Every month for a full year, we will read one volume of the chosen comic for that year. And then when we show up to record that episode, I'll recap everything that we read, hitting the high notes, but leaving some out of the conversation. If you'd to go and read this for yourself, we'll then talk about the things that we liked, the good, the things that we didn't, the bad. And in the case of the boys, there's also a heavy amount of

Outrageous and awful things that don't fit into either good or bad categories will hit that stuff as well. We're also talking about every single month, our favorite and least likable characters from that trade. It is often very difficult to choose both of those for me, one, because there's rarely anyone that is good and two, there are so many people to dislike. It's hard to just pick one.

The (sad) Boys (02:20)
you

Dave (02:41)
Anything else you'd like to add, gentlemen, before we get into the recap of my life?

Matt - CDWA (02:46)
No. No.

The (sad) Boys (02:48)
recap of your life or the recap of my life? Like, you're recap your entire life for the second

Dave (02:52)
The first one? No, the second one? I don't know, man. The tone that you delivered that in was very confusing. I didn't feel like there was much difference there.

The (sad) Boys (03:01)
Yeah. It's it's an inflection thing. If you wrote it down and added punctuation would be different. But I was wondering if you're going to recap your life or give the recap of your life. Okay. Okay. Good. I need it.

Dave (03:05)
Yeah. Well, I. No. That's that one, that's the second one now. Yeah, yeah, this is this is the culmination of my recap life's work. I've never done more recapping. At one, that's not true, actually, because when we read Invincible last year, every single month was a an omnibus or not an omnibus, but a.

The (sad) Boys (03:19)
Yes.

No.

Dave (03:32)
Hardcover. So that's what 12 issues every single time. But that read so much faster than this one. Anyway, let's get into it. Volume nine of the boys, the big ride split into three, four issue stories, the first one being called proper preparation and planning. And we're picking up where we left off at the end of volume seven, which was believe. So Vought man and his new assistant,

Matt - CDWA (03:37)
Mmm.

Dave (04:02)
they visit the 7 HQ. What's funny? just one sentence in.

The (sad) Boys (04:08)
You said Vaught man and I that was funny. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (04:09)
I love that we don't have a name for him. We still don't know what his name is Vought Man. Yeah, they've referenced it like once or twice, but like yeah, it's Vought Man. yeah.

Dave (04:09)
Yeah.

I'm pretty sure it's Edgar. They've they've referenced Edgar several times, but yeah. Yeah, I'm he's bought man. Yeah, you all did. So yeah, Vought man. He's he's Vought man. I'm not dignifying him with a name. Yeah, I do give I do reference just by name later on in the recap. Butcher and an M.M. patch things up and Huey is still not back with the boys.

The (sad) Boys (04:16)
well, when you said it, I knew what you meant. So.

Matt - CDWA (04:22)
Duff man.

The (sad) Boys (04:26)
Yeah, there's Vaught man and Vaught woman that's

Matt - CDWA (04:29)
Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (04:33)
okay.

Dave (04:42)
Butcher also decides that he wants to make a legitimate run at the seven. He's tired of waiting. There's also an extended scene where Homelander is having a chat with himself in the mirror. He talks about how people are just toys, all kinds of crazy, weird things, et cetera, et cetera. And Frenchie and the female are watching on their surveillance videos or cameras that they have placed throughout the HQ of the seven.

we also in this volume get a lot of trips down memory lane to times when Mallory was with the boys. they first started to turn the screws on Vaught and the seven, this is all being told to Huey who is still not back with the boys. we get to see where, kind of all went south with Mallory as well when he was with the boys. and that tale is about Lamplighter. Lamplighter got pissed off. he killed Mallory's granddaughters.

And then in an effort to broker some peace, Vought gave up Lamplighter to the boys and Mallory beat that ass and then killed him. We also get to see where the relationship between Butcher and Mallory soured. There's just a lot of backstory in this story. Butcher's also taken a trip to Washington DC.

And then he also goes to see director Rainer. He manipulates her on moving against the seven. And then I don't think this threat ever gets picked up. If it did, I missed it. But he he is about to leave and she kind of gives him like the do you have to go kind of bedroom eyes question? But he starts a recording device before like smiling and turning around. But I don't think that ever comes back.

Vought man's new assistant, her name is Jess. She has now been placed in charge of the day-to-day operations and sort of the direct liaison between Vought and the seven. And she suggests that they should consider pitting the boys against the seven and then just kind of see what happens. The reason why is because she has a complex simulation to predict the outcome. And that.

The (sad) Boys (06:52)
Yeah.

Dave (06:54)
That simulation predicts an 82 % probability that the boys will all die and only Homelander and Black Noir will survive with Queen Maeve missing. And that is what sets into motion most of what we are about to read. The second story is called Barbary Coast. This is 100%, well not 100%, but mostly focused on Huey and Mallory talking about Butcher.

What happened to Mallory and how similar it all has been for Huey and Mallory goes back to the very beginning to World War Two. And this is where Vought first attempted to use to use soups in in combat and national defense. And they get placed in Mallory's battalion. The soups completely fuck it all up. They get absolutely shredded by Nazis. Everyone dies. But Mallory, who ends up spending the rest of the war in a Nazi POW camp, then we skip ahead to the Cold War.

Supes are back in the 50s. Mallory walks Huey through all of it. And we get eventually into the late 80s where the CIA is giving low doses of V to Mallory. And he's about to start a team which will ultimately end up being the boys. Mallory finishes up with more info about who Butcher really is and why he left the boys. Huey kind of just tells him off. Then goes back to Annie and finally tells her everything.

which ironically, she has a lot of trouble believing, the, arc ends with what we assume is butcher paying Mallory a visit in his home. And Mallory simply says, get it over with. We also don't get to see what happens there. We never come back to that either. So there's two, two dangling plot threads that you will not get any satisfactory resolution to in the next four issues, which are entitled to the big ride. He returns to New York city.

Matt - CDWA (08:25)
Okay.

Dude.

Dave (08:48)
butcher meets him sort of ahead of schedule for Huey. and they are investigating the, the beating to death of a trans sex worker. Annie and Huey are kind of still on the mend. She's with him in New York city, but they're not a hundred percent back to normal. mother's milk and Huey clear the air. And then Huey starts to look through a file on Queen Maeve that he stole from a brothel that he and butcher visited.

they were starting to investigate that dead sex worker. Yes, it was like a one panel like he just swipes it and puts it in his back pocket. Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (09:19)
That's where it came from.

Yeah, because it kind of got to that part where he pulled it out from under the the the bed and was and I was like, where did this come from? That fills in the blank for me. Thank you. Yeah.

Dave (09:34)
Yeah, you're welcome.

Matt - CDWA (09:35)
This is the first time I recognize something that Eric did and I feel really good about it, Like this is the first time, Eric is the Supreme Boys Allied Commander. I'm sorry to cut you off, I felt good about that.

The (sad) Boys (09:39)
hell yeah.

Dave (09:40)
Dude, good for you.

Good for you.

The (sad) Boys (09:44)
Don't say that.

Dave (09:47)
That's okay. The math slander still stands. So Butcher and Huey go back to that brothel. They question several sex workers because they suspect Jack from Jupiter, is one of the dudes that I hate in the seven, is the cause. He beat this other sex worker to death.

Matt - CDWA (09:51)
Yeah, I'm still down. I'm still down by like two touchdowns right now. Like I'm still down.

The (sad) Boys (09:51)
Hahaha

Dave (10:16)
They figure out that really what happened was one of the other sex workers killed the one that has been beaten to death. And then that we tie that up and then we move on from it pretty quickly. There was footage of Jack from Jupiter getting gang banged by these four sex workers. That footage is released and the seven blame the boys. Of course, who else would you blame? Jack from Jupiter also

gets told to kind of leave the seven, but he gets to go with the boy or with the seven to confront the boys. They show up on the roof of the Flatiron building. And then we also before this final confrontation, we see a lot more of Huey reading from Maeve's file from that brothel. He finds out that Homelander had manipulated her into having blindfolded sex with Black Noir.

there's like a whole exchange between Maeve and Homelander that's documented there. And, that is ultimately what we had learned about. And I think it was volume six or volume five of, you know, Maeve and Homelander not getting along. And, the reason why Maeve was willing to plant those, those bugs in the seven HQ, it all goes back to that thing that Homelander did to her at the brothel with, with black noir. So.

Matt - CDWA (11:39)
Mmm.

Dave (11:44)
When the boys are confronted by Homelander, Homelander can tell that Butcher's not lying when he says that they were not the ones that released the footage of Jack. He again is now officially out of the seven he leaves and he goes on a massive bender. We also find out that Ms. Bradley, AKA Jess, AKA Vought woman, is the one who released the footage. That was ultimately what was supposed to be the inciting event.

that caused that 82 % probability outcome of all of the boys dying. And it did not work. She has a conversation with Vought Man about, you know, maybe she should resign. This wasn't the right thing to do. And he kind of talks to her and is saying, you you're good, stick it out. The boys are celebrating. Huey speaks his mind about not making fun of him anymore and, you know, sort of treating him as an equal. And they hash it out sort of.

in true butcher fashion. He of just says, yeah, man, I get it. Shut the fuck up. Which is about as close to a heart to heart as you can get with that man, I think. They go back to the flat iron and they find terror dead on the floor. Butcher knows immediately that it was Jack from Jupiter. So he immediately goes to find Jack and kills him very, very, very slowly. End of trade. End of part nine.

I need a break from talking.

Matt - CDWA (13:15)
Great recap.

boys, boys. I'm going to go through some good. If you're cool with that. I didn't have a lot. I don't want to bury the lead, but I don't... I'm assuming people didn't love this like some of their other works, but I'm going to... Yeah, go ahead.

The (sad) Boys (13:28)
Mm-hmm.

Dave (13:29)
Please do.

Before you get into it, I'm sorry, before you get into it, I have three times as much good as I have bad.

The (sad) Boys (13:46)
Really interesting.

Matt - CDWA (13:46)
Okay.

Maybe that's why I shouldn't speak. All right, I'm going to go through my good really quickly. So some of this is a little recycled, I guess. I mean, my first point is pretty recycled. It's just like the butcher or the sorry, the Huey and Starlight relationship. I'm glad that they're kind of back on the mend. It's one of the reasons that I tune in and read this book. I really enjoy it. And the fact more importantly, that Huey admits that he was an asshole and he was really lashing out at her, which

I've lashed out at people. I've lashed out at my wife. I've sure lashed out at my friends. I've never lashed out at them like he did, but the fact that he can at least recognize that he, he was scared for her for some reason. And that was part of the reason that he was lashing out. Like I can understand that to a certain extent. I still think he went a little bit too far and, and what he was saying, but it is what it is. Yeah. Like I feel like you can lash out, but there's some things you can say that can really

Dave (14:38)
He did. He did.

Matt - CDWA (14:44)
damage a relationship or take a really long time to repair a relationship. And I feel like that's the point that he was at. Also this like inevitable conflict between the seven and the boys. It's been like strung out and it's like really keeping me like locked in. Like I want to see this battle. I want to see this. get close to the edge. We're almost at the brink every time, but we come back. like Jess Bradley running her, you know, phony.

NFL level simulation where this is going to happen and it never happens that way. Like there's a 92 % chance your team is going to win. And then they lose on a Hail Mary. Like that's what it reminded me of. Like these simulations don't mean anything. It has to go be in the wild and play itself out, so to speak. But that being the impetus of why she released the, the, video, the footage, or, I just, I thought we were going to get there.

Like there's only so many trades left. There's gotta be a battle at some point. but I think we're working our way up to it. So, that also kept me locked in. Okay. Issue number three, issue number three, issue number 53. I really enjoyed that was the world war. One of the world war two issues where this is once again, where Garth Ennis is like flexing his military roots. He knows how to tell a really good military story.

And it was the one where was like Vought was pushing the soups into the battlefield and you had everything that was going on with, I'm forgetting, I'm going say, Miss Mallory, Captain Mallory and his Colonel being like a piece of shit and like won't stand up, won't push back. And like all vendors got slaughtered. It was like a good war movie. Like you think you're going to ramp up and it's going to be this heroic thing. And like a dude's head just explodes and like they're all just getting mowed down. it's

Dave (16:30)
I would read an entire series of Garth Ennis doing superheroes in World War II.

Matt - CDWA (16:36)
Yeah, like it was, that was just like a really, really good issue. And that's why I was like, this, got to write this one down because I did really enjoy that. And like the fact that, it's like a lot of good, you know, writers, he will weave that in. So that was actually the battle of the bulge. and I didn't know the battle of the bulge is like the third bloodiest military conflict that we've been involved in. didn't, I didn't know it was that high. so like, yeah, he just is an expert of like taking actual military history and then like,

weaving or, you know, entering some fiction elements. So I really liked that. And ultimately, yeah.

Dave (17:11)
Me too. The World War II stuff, I wrote down just to save some time later. I just wrote down in my good section, all the World War II stuff was 10 out of 10. And you're right, that is one of the things that Garth Ennis has done really, really well. I believe he's won some Eisners for his World War II comics. Really, really cool to see him put that in the boys in a way that made sense. And yeah, those are some of the most enjoyable things that I've read in this series.

Matt - CDWA (17:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, he's.

just like his handle on military history, like even like, haven't read all of it, but I'm sure you probably read it. Like some of his Punisher work with like Frank talking about Vietnam and stuff like that. anything that like, I haven't read all of it, but what I read, was like, man, this is like, he has a good handle on like military history. so I got to my hat to him there. And then also, just Jess Bradley, Vought Man, like I laugh because you say Vought Man at the beginning.

Dave (17:47)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Matt - CDWA (18:05)
Like I actually know Jess's name and like that's good. Cause like I, we just have this like weird Vaught character and I can't really put a name, like a name to this character. And I liked that Jess, like you said, she was introduced like in like trade five or something, but like now we're, we actually have like a face and a care, like a real character. And hopefully there's more development. Like I want to see where this goes with her. And especially after her screwing up, like why do they want to keep her? Like why did Vaught man want to keep her?

Hopefully that develops into something and just isn't one of those Garth Ennis lingering plot threads we never revisit. So I kind of want to see how her story plays out.

Dave (18:41)
Yeah, who knows? Based on how these collected editions have been going, we have anywhere from 18 to 36 issues left to figure out what's going to happen with her and everyone for that matter. We're either going to get six issues per or 12 issues per, who knows?

Matt - CDWA (18:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, we're ramping up. So I didn't, I wanted to know like why she was so bloodthirsty to kind of get this war over, but I don't know. So that was all. What do you think?

Dave (19:06)
I she's, to me, feels like she is trying to impress her boss. I'm newly promoted, I really wanna do well. I'm gonna pull out some crazy stuff and then show them what I'm really capable of. it went how it went.

Matt - CDWA (19:11)
E. Yup.

Yep.

Love it. Yeah.

That's all my good, so.

The (sad) Boys (19:28)
Okay, I'll give you some goods. I think it's great that we got a lot more about the origins of the boys and of butcher. I don't love everything that they did because I don't feel like a lot of it filled in like, huge puzzle pieces that I felt like I was missing or there was big aha moments. I was just like, okay. I didn't know about all this stuff. The World War Two stuff is interesting to me, but I liked

Matt - CDWA (19:51)
Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (19:57)
the military history more a couple volumes ago when the legend was telling it, I thought the pacing was good. Interesting, just random side note, my my grandpa, my stepmom's dad actually fought in the Battle of the Bulge and was taken prisoner and spent a lot of time in a POW camp. And reading his he kept notes on toilet paper and like has a whole journal of his time there that was really interesting to read.

Dave (20:02)
Mm-hmm.

Damn.

The (sad) Boys (20:24)
I was able to connect to some of that story in an interesting way. So that was pretty cool. But I do think there was more of it this time, little more of the military history that I was looking for. I like the human side of the military history stuff, though. So that's cool. One of the things that I like is that I feel like over the volumes, we are very gradually and especially in this one starting to see that turn, seeing Annie turn against the seven and potentially

aligning with the boys to become part of the boys. I'm here's a spoiler for the TV show that happens very quickly in the TV show. And just like kind of like, overnight, now she's on that side. This feels like a very much more realistic and gradual turn to that. If it should happen in the comics, I hope it does. I'm curious to see what that relationship is like and what the relationship between her and butcher will be. So I thought that was cool.

Those were my big, my big likes. Those were the things that I thought were good. I'll tell you both. I've been really busy with work and distracted lately. It took me a long time to read this one over like eight separate sittings. And I think I think my ADHD really got to me on this specific volume. Because there was so many times when I'm like reading it I'm like, I don't know what I'm reading. I'm just going to keep moving forward, you know, so I had trouble with this one.

Dave (21:55)
In stark contrast to that, I actually really enjoyed this volume. This is probably my favorite one we've read so far.

Matt - CDWA (22:01)
You

The (sad) Boys (22:02)
Yeah?

Interesting.

Dave (22:08)
There's so much that. And I know I made some jokes around like, well, you're not going to get resolution on this or this or that while I was doing the recap. But we did get some pretty satisfying resolution and not really expansion of the lore, but like insight into character motivations and character paths. We basically got the closest thing we're going to get to an origin for butcher. Which.

I thought was pretty cool. You get at no point in the comics so far has anyone really sat down and like talked about who butcher is, what his motivations are, why he does the things that he does, why he says the things that he does and what some of his overall expected outcomes are or why he's working towards them. And you get so much of that between the the

Mallory and Huey conversation that was in the Barbary Coast, that second story. I really do appreciate a lot of what happened in this volume. I'll go through my good. The first one I wrote down, I actually can't remember what happened and I was trying to find it while I was like waiting and listening to you guys. But I just wrote down the interaction with Frenchie and the female in the ice cream shop at the end of part one of proper preparation and planning.

But I don't remember what happened now because I read this so long ago. But hey, you can go and see for yourself and maybe you'll think that it was cool too. I don't know. The weaving in of the boys first encounter with the seven while Mallory and he were talking, I thought was really just overall, it was very well written. We learned some of this several trades ago and.

It came back, but we got it from Mallory's perspective. So now we've gotten two perspectives on how this went. And I thought that was really interesting because I think it was MM and the legend were filling in those gaps before for Huey. I don't know. I just really appreciated getting a third perspective, I guess. And also learning more about Mallory and why he left. And I think based on what he did to Huey in Highland Latty,

Mallory and butcher are not so different. While they may think that they are and no longer like each other, I think that they're ultimately sort of cut from the same cloth and both probably not very great people. But I don't know, I appreciated all of that. Everything with Mallory and Huey, all that stuff in the middle of the World War Two stuff. Chef's kiss. Mallory basically saying that Huey is a bitch.

He almost said word for word what Matt said about Huey in our last episode. Like if you go back and listen to all the stuff that Matt was saying about Huey being a little bitch, I don't know if Matt read ahead and then just like took notes and was like, I'm gonna say this, but it was very, very similar. So I don't know what that says about you, but you might be in Garth Ennis' head a little bit. Got the same take on this dude.

The (sad) Boys (25:15)
Mm.

Matt - CDWA (25:19)
No, I just, no.

The (sad) Boys (25:19)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (25:28)
Alright, the butcher might be coming to visit my house.

Dave (25:34)
Who knows? Who knows? And then the last one that I have written down for the good in the beginning of issue number 58, when they're in the brothel, I think this was right before Huey and butcher were about to question all those sex workers. There's a bunch of art on the wall that Huey is looking at. And so much of that is classic.

Matt - CDWA (25:58)
Yeah.

Dave (26:02)
comic cover poses. Amazing fantasy number 15 is there. Action comics number one is there. Amazing Spider-Man number 50 is there. I don't know what issue number it is, but Bruce Wayne in crime alley with his dead parents in front of him while Bruce is on his knees like child Bruce that's up there. I know there are more that I couldn't identify quickly and I didn't have time to go back and try to find, but I thought that was a fun little nod to something that I don't know. I guess I shouldn't give Garth Ennis credit for that. That was probably a Derek Robertson decision.

Matt - CDWA (26:05)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Dave (26:32)
because Garth seems to hate the big two and superhero comics. Maybe Derek Robertson wanted to just do a little homage of his own. don't know. But I appreciate a lot of stuff. This isn't even my whole list of good. I genuinely enjoyed reading this. While it was incredibly dense and it did take me three sittings, I did enjoy it.

Matt - CDWA (26:48)
This is...

The (sad) Boys (26:59)
Okay.

Dave (27:00)
I'm gonna I'm gonna let Eric start the bad because I already know what his number one bad is. We're just gonna get it out of the way.

The (sad) Boys (27:08)
it's it was the length of this thing was my number one bad. Yeah, no, that that that was my my bads are not they're probably not anything that you're going to expect it to be. But yeah, you know, this is not the longest book I've ever read, but it felt like the longest fucking book I've ever read. It really did.

Dave (27:11)
wow, I was wrong.

Matt - CDWA (27:29)
You

Dave (27:29)
I bet if you could do a word count on it, it might actually be the longest comic you've ever read.

The (sad) Boys (27:35)
no, I just mean books at all novels, anything. Yeah. Yeah, by the time I got to the end and came back to take notes, I literally had forgot I'm like, this is what happened at the beginning of this book. wow. It's been so long. I forgot. I really my other thing is that I struggled to track what was happening at times.

Dave (27:36)
geez, that is a serious indictment.

Matt - CDWA (27:38)
Yes.

The (sad) Boys (28:02)
and to understand character motivations, especially in like the big ride arc. Once it got to that, I think there were subtle cues I was supposed to pick up on that maybe I glazed over just because I was rushing to read through it. So some of that's on me for sure. But there were times when I would read a conversation more than once not grasp what was happening and just go, it's okay, I'll figure it out as we go, you know, and not pick it up.

Dave (28:15)
Yeah, that's fair.

But you know what, thinking about that though, I don't necessarily know if it's on you so much as it would be on Garth Ennis and editorial. You know how much how much of an editorial presence is there at an indie publisher? Probably not nearly as much if any.

The (sad) Boys (28:35)
Well, sure, sure, but I mean...

Probably not. okay, okay. But I mean, you want that, right? If you are working with an indie publisher, you don't want a strong editorial hand on your work, right? The idea is I want to be able to create my art the way I want it to be. And for some people, it's gonna work, and for other people, it's not gonna work, right? All art is how you connect with it, so.

Matt - CDWA (28:43)
I felt the same way, Eric, if that makes you feel any better. I, yeah.

Dave (29:06)
Yeah. Also to be fair, we have been steadily declining in interest as the year has gone on. And that factors in, you know, the less interested you are in the subject matter, the less you're paying attention to things and the more you're just trying to get through it.

The (sad) Boys (29:11)
Well, that's that's a problem. Yeah

Matt - CDWA (29:12)
you

The (sad) Boys (29:21)
Sure. Well, and that's what I'm not coming out and blatantly hating on this volume because I'm like, this volume is bad. I'll take on some of it is my interest level, my cadence of reading and what else is going on in my life. Like all that stuff factors in here in addition to how the book was written and presented, right? I'm pretty used to the casual racism and stuff in these books by this point. I expect it.

Dave (29:50)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

The (sad) Boys (29:50)
The transphobic stuff was weird in this one though, because it did not feel like it added anything to the book, right? You can do things, and I think Garth Ennis does do things that at least according to his social values, paint a character in a certain light, right? And I guess this was all meant to make Jack from Jupiter look like a bad person because he wants to have sex with transgender individuals. Okay, if you say so.

Dave (29:53)
Mm-hmm.

I agree.

The (sad) Boys (30:17)
but I don't know that that makes a person a bad person. It just makes me wonder then what are you saying about a character like Queen Maeve? What are you saying about a character like Butcher who all have vices, who all do things that depending on how you look at societal rules and expectations are bad or whatever, but that stuff was strange.

Dave (30:31)
Mm-hmm.

Honestly, I thought that I thought all the Jack from Jupiter stuff was hilarious because his whole his power set is that he says he says a word and then becomes invulnerable. So his whole deal is like he says the word and then just gets absolutely fucking destroyed by a bunch of dicks. Like, who cares what they're attached to? I think that's hilarious. His whole kink is like, I can't be damaged. So fuck me up. I think it's funny.

The (sad) Boys (30:48)
Thank

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, let's put.

Right, which, like on paper, I'm like, he didn't do anything wrong. He didn't hurt anybody. So what's the issue with that?

Dave (31:10)
Yeah, exactly. exactly. The issue is that like trans bad. That's the issue that you're supposed to take away from it. And that's so it's so ridiculous.

The (sad) Boys (31:15)
Right. That's what I'm getting at. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly. I mean, in a sentence you illustrated what I'm trying to say there. So I didn't like that. And then my biggest issue is that across this volume, the boys come face to face with the seven, think three times and every time it's completely cordial. And one of the times they're even like, maybe we should team up. I do not believe that the

building tension between these two groups. I believe that butcher has beef. I believe that Homelander is a bad dude. But there he's not doing a great job of building up the this is going to be the ultimate final conflict. feels weird to

So those are my bads.

Dave (32:01)
I that I kind of agree. And I also think that some of this is just no one is 100 % good and almost no one is 100 % bad. There is not a lot of binary good, bad in this comic. There probably never will be except for a handful of characters. So I think that just sort of falls in line with that same general sentiment of

The (sad) Boys (32:17)
That's true.

Dave (32:31)
You know they tolerate each other. There's there's personal beef along the line on both sides, but you know.

The (sad) Boys (32:39)
I got to say the biggest pop I had, I think it was the deep that did it that was like, hey, maybe we should team up and go after Vaught or whatever. I was like, fuck, that would be awesome if that's what happens. Like, I hope that and then they're like, no, no, no, no, just shut up. We're gonna you know, but I was like, I would tune in for that. So

Matt - CDWA (32:48)
Yeah.

Dave (32:53)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (32:57)
I, that point that you just said, I think that that's one of the issues with this series though, is there, this is the problem with modern professional wrestling as a professional wrestling fan. There are no white meat baby faces and white meat heels for the issue. Everyone is in the gray. Like, and when you have that, makes things, it makes storytelling difficult. Like who am I supposed to root for? Who am I supposed to be against? I don't know if that's just like a,

a mindset of like the common, like not overly educated person, but like when I go in to read a book, I want to know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. I don't mind a little bit of gray in between there. And I know some people might want more nuanced, but like that's the level of entertainment that I want for the most part. And I feel like everyone is just, it's like, everyone is just so awful. Like Dave said, like it's hard to pick.

The (sad) Boys (33:45)
No, you make a great point.

Matt - CDWA (33:53)
Like it's not like a vice here or there some someone does. It's like everyone is awful. Huey was my guy for the first like four volumes. And then he goes off like a lunatic. And it's like, I can't root for this guy. Who am I rooting for? It points in this volume. I'm like, I almost want, Homelander to just go ape shit and kill everyone. Cause they're all awful people. Like I'm thinking of team Homelander now and he's a horrible person. like, yeah, I might. Yeah, but they're.

The (sad) Boys (34:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Your team Homelander.

Dave (34:17)
So the most awful person in the book is now the person that you are rooting for.

The (sad) Boys (34:21)
Your favorite.

Matt - CDWA (34:23)
They're all different stages of awful, so who do I cheer for?

Dave (34:28)
I mean, feel like Homelander is pretty, he's in a tier of awful that is near the top tier of awful. That dude's really, really terrible.

Matt - CDWA (34:33)
Yeah, I mean, yeah. I'm just saying that you get where I'm coming from though. It's just like this gray. Everyone's so gray and I get it. yeah, go ahead.

The (sad) Boys (34:33)
Yeah.

Dave (34:43)
I until Huey rapes someone to death, think that Homelander's near the top by himself.

Matt - CDWA (34:49)
I'm not we're not debating on how awful Homelander is yes Homelander's I said there are points there are points that I wanted Homelander to go off and kill someone aka Jack from Jupiter that's who I meant that I was like Homelander if you took this dude out I wouldn't even be mad at that. It's your team your team Homelander only when it comes to Jack for Jupiter that's that's the caveat only when it comes from Jack from Jupiter

Dave (34:56)
I know, I know.

I've been wishing death on that dude for multiple volumes. I can't stand Jack from Jupiter.

The (sad) Boys (35:15)
But you bring up such an interesting point because we're reading this in 2024. And I on our other show, I run into this too, where we're reviewing music and sometimes we're reviewing something that came out 20 or 30 years ago. And there are things that don't track the way now that they would have that. And this book, I think is very much like that because I think there were decades where all characters for the most part were portrayed as good or bad. Everything is spelled out for you, right? And when you got that

Matt - CDWA (35:28)
Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (35:42)
morally ambiguous character, your anti-hero, your flawed hero, know, your Batmans or your, you know, whoever's. I think they stood out, right? And people thought that was really cool because it was such a contrast to the clear black and white, right? And probably when this came out, it was still in a time where that was, I mean, look at the last 10, 15 years of explosions of the MCU and...

whatever the DC universe has been doing, but there's so much more of that. So much more of the, me relate to the good and bad of a character because it humanizes them than there used to be. And so I think reading this now, it feels tropey, whereas probably when it came out, it wasn't quite there yet. That's my suspicion.

Matt - CDWA (36:18)
Yep.

Yeah, I mean, it's like all the age jokes and trans stuff and the hard ERs. Like, I don't love that stuff, but I'm trying to like put myself like back into the day that like being gay was like the worst thing you could possibly be. And it's just like, dude, that's so that's not even a, well, that's a thing for some people, but that's not even a thing for me. Like that's, that's, you know, but so Eric, I got to challenge you real quick, just on like something you said previously.

The (sad) Boys (36:56)
Okay, do it.

Matt - CDWA (36:59)
that like we are waiting like you're you're taking in your personal life and same with me. I'm like in the same boat like as we've been going on like that like our interest is just waiting in it and it is to a certain extent. honestly a lot of comic series that I read my interest increases the longer we go on the longer it goes. I am more interested. This is one of the few that I'm just like dude like what like what is this and I think you hit the nail on the head when you were talking about it that and that's why I'm pushing back on you.

I think this comic is just editorial issues. Just, just this, this comic is all over the place, dude. Like it is, I get that he wants that creative freedom and that's a good thing. And it's, it's his right to express it or whatever, but like, we also don't have to enjoy it. Like, I mean, it is what it is. Like our life stuff is, you know, my kids are bad as hell. You got all, we all got something going on, but I'm like, dude, this is like, this comic is a slog at times. Like there.

The (sad) Boys (37:45)
No, that's fair.

Matt - CDWA (37:58)
Invincible, there might be like an arc where I'm like, this wasn't my favorite, but like I can think of like when a monster girl and robot that arc, like Dave really liked that. I'm just like, dude, I'm not feeling this, but like the next issue or the next arc, like pulled me right back in. it's like, I am not really pulled back into this series. There are certain things I really enjoy about it, but there are like on like an arc level.

Especially when you have to read three arcs in a row. I'm like, dude, like, what are we doing? Dave, you look like you're gonna, you got something to say. I want to hear what Dave's got to say. He looks like he's ready to come at me.

The (sad) Boys (38:32)
for.

Dave (38:36)
I was just gonna say how naive we were. remember texting back and forth, like, dude, a lot of words in this next Invincible volume we gotta read. No other fucking weren't compared to this. Barely any words, actually.

Matt - CDWA (38:45)
Yeah, dude.

The (sad) Boys (38:48)
Ha

Matt - CDWA (38:48)
No, dude, like this is, I mean, and this is the duality. I'm going into my good. I'm we're piecing it in. We're weaving in and out. This is the duality of man that Dave always hits me with, with like, I love Xbox. I love PlayStation. sends me these memes of chameleon pulled off his head and stuff. I love that specific war issue 53. I thought all that war stuff was way too long in my opinion. It was way too dense. was. Depending on what audience you're going to send this for, I think just

a general consumer audience that is interested in comics. thought that that was, I'd read a book, dude. That's way too long. It was way too much. And my other bad thing that I don't like that kind of also goes into that is like Eric hit it on the head for me. It's pacing. I don't, Dave, you've always been someone where you can like, they can tell the main narrative and then they can segue for six issues or a couple issues and come back and you know where you're at.

My brain does not function like that. I can do like an issue or two, but for you to go like six issues off and then to come back, I lose a lot and I don't like that pacing. would rather them.

Now I'm kind of contradicting myself, I would almost rather them, would, but the problem with this comic is it happens too frequently. That's the problem for me. I would rather them take six issues and explain all the Vought stuff, explain all the butcher stuff, than like constantly do this all the time. I'm sucked into the nerve. I'm pulled out of the nerve. We're going back to World War II. I'm, you know, like I, my brain just can't handle it. And that's a, that's a me problem, I guess. And my attention to things, but I also feel like.

Dave (40:27)
I don't know. know, some of this some of this is the decision of how it's collected to. We're reading this in in collected editions. I don't know how this stuff was originally published because I didn't read it in the 2000s when it came out. You know, maybe it was a much better flow of of storytelling when these things are because I know this this comic had a bunch of miniseries that were supplemental. And I don't know how much of that stuff we can skip that we can't because it's wedged inside of a vault. Like, I just don't know. So, know.

Matt - CDWA (40:33)
guess.

That's a fair point.

That's a fair point.

The (sad) Boys (40:52)
Right. This whole next volume is a mini series so.

Matt - CDWA (40:56)
Yeah, exactly. He looked ahead. He looked ahead. like...

The (sad) Boys (40:59)
yeah, we've got we've got six issues, six issues, seven issues. And so it's a mini series and then two volumes of actually completing the main run.

Matt - CDWA (41:11)
And it's just like, don't, because this next one's a butcher arc, it? Isn't like, well, allegedly. I hope I'm proved wrong, but it's like, how much of this do we need? Like, how much of this is relevant? It's just like, it's just being verbose for being verbose. Like.

The (sad) Boys (41:15)
Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah.

Now, I'll agree with everything that you're saying I listen, I learned a long time ago, and I used to be very, not not to say I'm not still an opinionated person, I think we all are just comes down to how you express it. But I acknowledge that just because I feel something doesn't mean other people do right. Dave just said he really liked this volume. So I'm not going to come out and be like, this volume is shit. I'm to say some of it's on me. I'll take some of that on. Because you know, well,

Matt - CDWA (41:43)
Yeah.

Dave (41:43)
Mm-hmm.

Matt - CDWA (41:50)
I got you.

Dave (41:50)
You can say it's shit. If you think it's shit, it's shit to you.

The (sad) Boys (41:55)
Yeah, but I don't think it is. I just didn't personally enjoy reading it. Like there are things about it that I think were executed poorly. Absolutely. I think the pacing was brutal. Like I said, it's not the longest book I've read, but it felt like it was. And some of that is definitely on the way it was written, I think.

Dave (41:58)
Okay. All right.

Matt - CDWA (42:17)
I think I gauge like my, if it's shit meter on like, if I was reading this monthly, would I have dropped it? If we got to this war arc, yes, I would have dropped. If we were on issue 51, I would have dropped this book. Like where I'm currently at in my life. I don't, Dave is, he's worked with me a lot. He's like, dude, if you don't enjoy something, like your time is limited, get that out of your life.

The (sad) Boys (42:23)
Yes.

Dave (42:34)
Hmm

The (sad) Boys (42:41)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. You guys talk about that.

Matt - CDWA (42:41)
Like this is I absolutely would have been like dude like no man like this is not We've drugged this on for too long Yes, so this would have got cut for me that's that's how I'm like, I don't know man like

Dave (42:48)
There's only so many room on the active roster. Some guys can't make it. They got to get cut from the team.

And this is the point in every episode where I like to remind all of you listening and my my two friends here with me that this was all Matt's idea.

Matt - CDWA (43:06)
you

The (sad) Boys (43:07)
Yes, it is.

Dave (43:09)
We are where we are because he wanted to do it.

Matt - CDWA (43:09)
Boom.

I thought it was going to be like this show. say it every time. I thought it was going to be like this show. I was so wrong. Yeah, but what I've seen was interesting. The one episode I saw, I was captivated by.

The (sad) Boys (43:17)
Which you also haven't watched yet.

Yeah. Okay.

Dave (43:24)
Dude, that show, I don't want to sidebar super hard, but that show has consistently gotten worse for me with every subsequent season. I'm so close to dropping it. Gen V is great. The show, ugh.

Matt - CDWA (43:34)
Is it still as

The (sad) Boys (43:36)
I love Gen V. Yeah, yeah. No, it moves faster, I think definitely. But this last see this last season, there were great things that happened in this last season. But there was also which every time I tell somebody I'm reading the boys, they basically referenced that it's all headed toward where that season is. And I'm like, Okay, interesting. We'll see. We'll find out.

Matt - CDWA (43:39)
Is it as bad as this though? Yeah.

Dave (43:43)
It moves way faster.

Matt - CDWA (43:59)
Mm.

Interesting.

Dave (44:02)
Yeah, yeah, we will find out, unfortunately, or fortunately.

The (sad) Boys (44:06)
I can't wait to see what Matt picks for next year.

Dave (44:09)
Matt's not picking for next year.

The (sad) Boys (44:10)
Okay.

Dave (44:15)
It'll be a group decision. No more going rogue picking something.

The (sad) Boys (44:18)
Fair. Every there's no series I read that doesn't have its ups and downs. Every single one there are arcs where you know, loose even Saga, which is probably one of I would consider one of the greatest comics I've ever read since coming back from break. I've struggled with so. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (44:18)
I've been vetoed.

It's cause it's not consistent though. It's not consistent.

Dave (44:36)
It has been meandering a little. Yeah, it's meandering a little.

The (sad) Boys (44:40)
Yeah, yeah. But I'm I you know, there's ups and downs. This one though, has not been this it's been

for me. So.

Matt - CDWA (44:49)
Mmm

Dave (44:50)
Are you current on Saga?

The (sad) Boys (44:53)
I haven't read the last two.

Dave (44:55)
OK. The end of the end of issue number 69 gives me a little bit of hope that we're going to speed back up a little. Maybe something's going to happen. I don't know.

The (sad) Boys (44:57)
I have a-

Okay.

Matt - CDWA (45:06)
Pacing, Eric said it's pacing. I thought you told me Fiona's back. We're back, Dave. Eight months later, we're getting it. What's going on? I can't do it. I can't track it. I can't do it.

The (sad) Boys (45:07)
Yes.

Dave (45:09)
You know what?

Yeah, I mean if there's one if there's one comic currently being published that has earned enough goodwill for me to stick it out. It's saga Brian Kayvon and and Fiona Staples are creating more than just a comic that that is art in Any way you look at it?

Matt - CDWA (45:32)
No, it's great.

My brain just can't retain it. I can't retain the information, so I gotta wait for trade. That's just, I can't. I love it, it's great, but sorry, here you go, sorry. That's the most passionate I've been about the boys. Like this, yeah, like this, yeah, all right.

Dave (45:44)
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Anyway. You're good. You're good. I know I love it.

The (sad) Boys (45:53)
I would say the only two saga and something is killing the children are the only two that have I've read enough that I there's enough momentum that even if we have a lull I'm just going to keep going. I'm not going to stop. So that's a sexy collection. That looks good.

Dave (45:54)
We finally broke him.

Matt - CDWA (45:58)
Mmm.

Dave (46:09)
that was near.

Matt - CDWA (46:09)
Can't wait.

I know I was getting the singles but I had to wait. I love it. You got me. got me. Eric got me.

The (sad) Boys (46:16)
Hell yeah.

Dave (46:17)
I would I would also put local man in that category personally And I'm very very very very sad that that that comic has gone away I Just read the last issue and to be fair. It's not it's not gone forever. It's just taking an extended hiatus Which is also a very 90s image thing to have happen to you Especially if your name is Rob Liefeld

Matt - CDWA (46:28)
You

The (sad) Boys (46:44)
Yeah.

Dave (46:47)
And the the afterword in that that last comic was very, very heartfelt. And I really I I connected with that book in such a very real way. And I was getting a little a little teared up just reading the afterword of that that final issue. It's such a great comic. If you're if you're a fan of 90s comics, specifically 90s image comics, you know, you're going to get probably a compendium that has everything local man in it.

Matt - CDWA (46:57)
You did.

Dave (47:16)
Highly recommend you go pick that up and read it because it is a very fun ride. Yes, indeed.

The (sad) Boys (47:20)
Tim Seely, right? He is equally one of my favorite writers and at times one of my least favorite writers. He his hits his highs are super high and his lows are really disappointing.

Dave (47:25)
and Tony fleeks.

Yeah. Local Man is a love letter to 90s image comics. If you're a 90s image fan, I use you got to read it.

The (sad) Boys (47:44)
That's how I got into comics.

Dave (47:47)
you should read it. My bad, unless you have more.

The (sad) Boys (47:48)
Okay.

Dave (47:53)
Eric, did you have more bad? That was it. OK, I only had I only have to and a lot of it's stuff you've talked about. You mentioned Butcher's transphobia. I'm going to say like it's the intentional misgendering of those trans women that was the most frustrating for me, even to the point where like Huey calls it out and he's like, what are you fucking doing? Like, you know, they're women. Just say just say they're women. Like, why do you have to do that?

The (sad) Boys (47:54)
I don't. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Even Huey admits that he is uncomfortable about being around transgender people. it is, did like that moment where he calls him out on it. And I was like, okay. So it just makes it all the worse because Garth Ennis clearly knows better, but is using it as a tool anyway.

Dave (48:22)
Yeah.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that it's probably in an attempt to like make butcher more unlikable and consistency with his character, whatever you however you want to justify it. was icky. didn't like it. I also think the way that Derek Robertson drew those women was a little bit suspect to you know, there's I think that there is some intentionality from panel to panel in they were

pretty soft and feminine in some panels and then like all of a sudden the next panel they've got like these really sharp masculine jawlines that don't look the same as the panel before and I'm like I don't know if you're trying to say something deeper here but if you are what you're trying to say also sucks so like fuck you not interested so that that that entire interaction really that was the only thing that I one of two things that I

very very very strongly disliked about this volume. The other was terror dying.

The (sad) Boys (49:34)
Yeah, at least they didn't show it happen. same.

Dave (49:35)
Hey, when animals die in movies, yeah, they didn't show it happened, but like fucking I don't ever want to see the terror is such an awesome character. I love fucking I love that dog fucking things on command. He's just like a fun, goofy dog. I loved it. I love terror. You can't kill terror. That's fucked up. Fuck you, Garth Ennis. You piece of shit.

The (sad) Boys (49:52)
Yeah, that that panel was a gut punch. I was like, fuck. But we immediately got our John Wick moment. So.

Dave (50:00)
We did, but it doesn't bring terror back.

The (sad) Boys (50:03)
true. Maybe he's okay. We don't know. I did. That's true. I did love that the female laid down and cuddled him and I was like, Well, I'll just give away that that that solidified her as my favorite character again this time around.

Dave (50:06)
Yeah, maybe he is also on V.

Shall we move into outrageous? And do you mind if I go first? I only have four. First of which is Kessler, AKA Monkey, two actually with Monkey. So the origin of his nickname.

The (sad) Boys (50:25)
Sure. Do it.

Dave (50:44)
I thought that was absolutely ridiculous, but also kind of hilarious, but it fit nowhere but outrageous because it wasn't good.

The (sad) Boys (50:51)
with the statue and everything.

Dave (50:53)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely love that. then monkey trying to fuck that Paralympics medalist. He says things like I want to make love to your broken little body. Like this dude fucking sucks. He's sucked since the moment we saw him. I fucking can't stand him. Everything about him fucking sucks.

Matt - CDWA (51:01)
Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (51:09)
Yeah.

This is my first outrageous point too, so you got it. No, you're good.

Dave (51:17)
Okay, sorry. The cover of issue number 57. The fuck was that? Do you remember that? That's Queen Maeve in a hospital bed with Stormfront staying next to her and she has a black baby. Like what? Because then when I'm reading all of that stuff from Maeve's file, she had a kid with the legend and the legend was fucking Maeve?

The (sad) Boys (51:25)
Which one?

Matt - CDWA (51:27)
Yeah, with the baby, with the black baby.

The (sad) Boys (51:31)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (51:45)
I didn't pick up on the kid, but I knew the legend was EFNR. I didn't know that.

The (sad) Boys (51:48)
Well, okay. Look, can we talk about that? Because that's one of my outrageouses. And I'm like, what are these pictures? The legend doesn't have feet or something. What? Because and then the next issue he's wearing shoes. I'm like, what is happening in these pictures?

Dave (52:03)
Yeah, have no, I don't know, I don't get it. I don't understand the black baby tie here, like what happened there, like what is, what, I don't, I didn't, so was I.

The (sad) Boys (52:11)
I was confused by all that.

Matt - CDWA (52:12)
Editorial oversight. Editorial oversight.

The (sad) Boys (52:15)
Yeah.

Dave (52:17)
Garth, you're listening, if you ever listen, feel free to explain what the fuck you were talking about here, man. I don't get it. We don't get it. Please fill us in. That's it. That's all my outrageous. Sorry I stole your two.

The (sad) Boys (52:23)
Yes.

Matt - CDWA (52:32)
No, what's... Did... did Terror? I... I... like you said earlier, The Butcher? Okay, or not the... Monkey? Okay, I like... I read this so long, I just put Butcher's negotiating tactics with Monkey in issue 51. So Terror, that was my number one. And then number two was that Monkey statue, because like I was reading it on my computer, so was like super big. So I'm reading the PDF and I scroll down and this giant monkey statue like it's like...

Dave (52:37)
Yep, yes. Yes. Monkey, yes.

The (sad) Boys (52:38)
Yes, yes he did. Monkey. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (53:01)
The whole size of the screen is just scared the shit out of me. Yeah. Monkey getting his bit monkey, getting the business literally was the best part of this most outrageous thing for me.

That's it.

The (sad) Boys (53:15)
I only have one that wasn't already mentioned and not outrageous because of what happened, but of how casual it was. And correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like there has been sort of offhand or build up mentions to something happened to butcher's wife. Homelander did it, but the reveal that Homelander raped butcher's wife was so like,

Matt - CDWA (53:37)
Yes. Yes.

The (sad) Boys (53:44)
you know about that? Yeah, you know, okay, moving on. And I was like, that's that's as casually as we're going to reveal and mention that and move past it. I knew about it from the TV show, obviously, because they make it very obvious. But in the book, it would be easy if you had never seen the show to go past that and be like, Wait, what what happened? Is that that's really what happened? It there they didn't make a big deal out of it. It was not a big like, holy shit moment. It was just like, yeah, whatever. Moving on.

Dave (53:54)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Matt - CDWA (54:04)
Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (54:13)
I thought that was unbelievable.

Dave (54:14)
Yeah. There's also the casual mention of butcher stomping out the super powered baby that crawled out of her.

Matt - CDWA (54:22)
Yes, okay.

Dave (54:23)
That was just a very like, and by the way, that movie. Yeah, that happened too.

The (sad) Boys (54:26)
I don't even think I caught that.

okay. Well, maybe I did and I just didn't.

Matt - CDWA (54:34)
There's just so much stuff where you bring it up and be like, yep, I do remember reading that. Like I wouldn't present it to you. but yeah, like now that you said that, like, I remember that.

The (sad) Boys (54:37)
Yeah.

Dave (54:39)
You know, I'm actually maybe I should have put that on my outrageous. Why didn't I think that was outrageous enough to make the list? That was that say about me.

The (sad) Boys (54:44)
Yeah. Now that you're saying it, well, and it's because of how it was handled in the book, I think just like the reveal of what happened, you're saying and I'm like, you know what, I do remember reading that. But again, it was so casual, they it was not a major beat. It was just this and this and this and this and this and then moving on. Like, okay.

Matt - CDWA (54:53)
just, yeah. yeah.

Yeah.

The (sad) Boys (55:09)
So that's my other big outrageous thing.

Dave (55:13)
All right, let's bring it home with favorite and least likable. We'll do favorites first. Who wants to go?

Matt - CDWA (55:19)
Mine was, mine was mother's milk. I don't know if I've picked him recently, but I like that he stuck, stuck with Huey through kind of all this thing. And correct me if I'm wrong, Dave, like you probably picked up on this or Eric, like he was the one who kind of facilitated Captain Mallory to talk to Huey. Like he's, I like, I like that like the relationship was like broken or frayed or whatever, but like he's investing in that relationship to make it right. Like he wants to get Huey back in the boys. Like I,

I like that or at least give Huey some closure. Like I just, I really thought that was like solid of him. And then just the, it's kind of came off to me as like, I could say this, like the angry black guy man line to like Huey that like, I'm not afraid of the butcher. I just, you know, I'm not going to show my ass out, but like, he's like, I got this dude. I'm not afraid of him. And I was like, shit, like mother's milk, like mother's milk is that dude. Like he really is. And then, he apologizes.

Like the butcher, like when mother's milk kind of put his foot down a little bit, he liked the butcher actually like apologized to him about making jokes about the flask. And as we're going back revisiting earlier, like the butcher doesn't really apologize to anyone, but the butcher apologizes to mother's milk. So like, I think that's also because those two dudes have been linked together for so long that like,

Dave (56:33)
Mm-mm.

Matt - CDWA (56:41)
I don't know if Dave started up a super team or whatever and we were, you know, doing horrible stuff. would probably be the only two that could check each other because we've been, you know, tied together for so long. Like I'd be like, yo, like that was kind of auto lining. He'd be like, yeah, well, you know, that's, that's kinda how I took it. So yeah, mother's milk. And he also was like, probably the least most horrible that we always got to add that caveat in as well too. So like the female and like mother's milk, they're kind of not horrible. Like, so yeah.

The (sad) Boys (56:51)
fair.

Yeah, that's fair.

Man, I can't wait for the next volume when Mother's Milk loses a bunch of weight and shaves off all his facial hair.

Matt - CDWA (57:13)
Yeah, he goes, loses a bunch of weight like this show. Looks like a completely different person. they recast him?

Dave (57:15)
Yeah, same.

The (sad) Boys (57:18)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I already said mine was the female. I'm sticking by it.

Dave (57:25)
Yeah, you did. Yeah, fair. I actually picked Huey this time around. He stood up for himself with Butcher. He came clean with Starlight. He stood up for those those trans women like Huey. Huey had some redemption. He even told off Mallory. You know, like Huey kind of grew some balls and I appreciated that. Good for Huey.

Matt - CDWA (57:30)
Good.

Forget back.

Little miracle girl on the balls. We're good. Little miracle girl. We're good. We're good.

Dave (57:54)
Yeah.

Sure.

Matt - CDWA (57:58)
I don't know where that came from, be honest.

Dave (58:00)
I don't either.

The (sad) Boys (58:01)
Is that how that works?

Dave (58:05)
If it does, I'm about to hit up lows after we're done recording. About to grow these balls.

Matt - CDWA (58:07)
27 pound bag. 27 pound bag.

The (sad) Boys (58:12)
All right.

Dave (58:13)
You see me in six months. I'll be like like Stan's dad in South Park when he had to roll his balls around in a wheelbarrow. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (58:16)
Yeah, the wheelbarrow.

The (sad) Boys (58:17)
just bouncing around on your balls. I'm going to go next with my own likable because it's the exact character you just said and the exact reasons you just said, my least likable is Huey, because he kept standing up for himself. But every time he did it, it just felt kind of flailing and hopeless. And like he was kind of disconnected from his surroundings, and he would do it. And people would be like, okay, little guy.

you say whatever you got to say and kind of laughed it off. Yes. He I at this point, I don't know what Ennis is trying to accomplish or communicate with Huey. And he feels pitiful to me. And I do not understand why a character like Annie would continue to stand by him, because he hasn't done anything to earn her loyalty aside from being the only character not to sexually assault her. So maybe that's all it takes. I don't know. But I think Huey is the worst.

Matt - CDWA (58:45)
Pat on the head like, like, they're our kids.

Dave (59:14)
Yeah, I mean, I think that Annie has some some pretty deep rooted traumas to work through. And, you know, there's probably some codependency there that keeps her attached to Huey. Also, it's like it's just a comic book, so I don't know if it's that deep. It might just be that she is a plot device to Garth Ennis. I don't know.

The (sad) Boys (59:19)
Absolutely. Yes.

think so.

Might be it could be either. I mean, of course you can extrapolate whatever you want from it And he may be thinking that deep who knows

Dave (59:36)
Could be both. Yeah, of course. Yeah. That's an interesting. That's an interesting take on Huey man. That's. Alright, alright.

Matt - CDWA (59:50)
Jack from Jupiter. I don't feel like I need to say much more. Dude sucks. He sucks since day one. Yeah, like, we don't, yeah.

Dave (59:54)
Yeah, that was also my least likable is Jack from Don't Kill Dogs. Yeah. Yeah, he had this coming. This was probably one of if not the most satisfying deaths in this comic. Fuck Jack from Jupiter. Don't kill dogs. If you kill dogs, fuck you.

The (sad) Boys (1:00:13)
Agreed.

Matt - CDWA (1:00:14)
I read this some time ago, but my notes were literally stupid character, stupid look, racist dog killer. I really want Homewinder to kill him. That was what I had.

Dave (1:00:24)
I don't think anyone could have said that better themselves. That was perfectly stated, Matt. Thank you. I couldn't have said it that way. That was perfect. Thank you.

The (sad) Boys (1:00:33)
I got to ask you a question though. They never directly reveal that Jack actually killed terror. I think they're building toward it wasn't him that that Homelander or somebody did it so that they knew that butcher would go after Jack from Jupiter and kill him. I don't think he did it.

Matt - CDWA (1:00:46)
Yeah, maybe. That's a good point.

Dave (1:00:56)
Thanks, Eric. Thanks. Thanks for pissing on our parade.

The (sad) Boys (1:01:00)
I'm just saying. Let's find out what happens. But that's my guess.

Matt - CDWA (1:01:03)
Let's go to volume 10. Well, we won't find out to volume probably 11 now because we got a side story. Yeah, true.

Dave (1:01:06)
Yeah, you might never find out. Who knows who fucking knows? Well, that'll do it. That's volume nine of the boys. One of us loved it. Two of us didn't.

The (sad) Boys (1:01:09)
That's true.

Matt - CDWA (1:01:17)
We do it.

Dave (1:01:21)
We'll see what maybe it maybe that flips in volume 10. Who knows? Can't wait to find out. So there is a bit of a gap in episodes. This is actually the first episode that will release in calendar October. So we're going to try to get back on track. Sorry for the delay, but I think we'll have something two weeks in a row here, so we'll get back on track. We do have to double up the boys again, though, because we have three volumes left and only two months left in the year. So.

Matt - CDWA (1:01:21)
We did it boys.

The (sad) Boys (1:01:25)
Maybe.

Matt - CDWA (1:01:47)
We'll get it.

Dave (1:01:52)
we're going to have to.

Matt - CDWA (1:01:52)
You said they're all like six issues though, right Eric? Because like this is this was too like pretty much. We'll get there. We can get there.

The (sad) Boys (1:01:55)
Yeah, 6-6-7. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave (1:01:57)
Okay.

So there's absolutely no chance that all of these unresolved plot threads resolve.

The (sad) Boys (1:02:05)
especially since what one of them is a mini series about butcher, which that they could still resolve some stuff. But as far as the mainline stuff, we've got two volumes of mainline and it's 13 issues.

Matt - CDWA (1:02:10)
That's what you are.

Dave (1:02:18)
Great.

What a downer. Not you, just the overall. The overall book is just a fucking downer. All right, well, we'll be back very soon. Until then, my name is Dave.

The (sad) Boys (1:02:22)
We'll see.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (1:02:36)
And I'm mad.

The (sad) Boys (1:02:38)
And I'm Eric.

Dave (1:02:39)
Take care of yourselves everybody, bye bye.

Matt - CDWA (1:02:41)
Peace.

The (sad) Boys (1:02:41)
Bye.

Dave (1:02:44)
put up a new poster and no one even said anything about it.

The (sad) Boys (1:02:47)
I well, the way that they're all on my screen are just little vertical slices. So I can't see it if it's there. Let me highlight you. Hold on. Let me, let me, let me full screen you.

Dave (1:02:53)
So, alright.

Matt - CDWA (1:02:55)
I can't hear you.

Dave (1:03:00)
I'm still recording. I'm going to hit stop.