93: DC Destroys Marvel (When It Comes To Animation)

Summary
In this episode of the Comic Dudes, Dave and Matt discuss the DC Animated Movie Universe and their thoughts on the Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox. They talk about the violence in the movie and the high death count, as well as the adaptation of the Flashpoint comic event. They also discuss the portrayal of Wonder Woman and the current Wonder Woman comic by Tom King. The conversation touches on the animation style and the overall tone of the movie.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage
03:08 The DC Animated Movie Universe
05:59 The Violence and Death Count in Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox
09:01 Adapting the Flashpoint Comic Event
13:33 Empowering and Well-Written: Tom King's Wonder Woman Comic
16:26 The Animation Style and Tone of the Movie
22:30 Exploring the Animation Style and Voice Acting
23:38 The Influence of Anime on American Animation
25:13 Appreciation for Michael B. Jordan and Discussion of Actors
28:07 Discussion of Voice Acting and Alex Karev
31:30 Kevin Conroy's Batman and Hollywood Talent
34:17 The Appeal of Reverse Flash
36:11 Comparison to Other Flash Movies
38:18 Post Credit Scene and Future DC Animated Films

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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Transcript

Dave (00:02.114)
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes, podcast about comic books and comic book related things. My name is Dave with me, as always, my esteemed co -host, Matt. Matt, how are you?

Matt - CDWA (00:12.918)
I'm so happy you called me today. I came in a flash, man, when you told me to be here. So I'm ready to go.

Dave (00:18.871)
Okay, that, yeah, sure. I feel like that undersells a tiny bit what we actually do with the podcast. Like I didn't just call you up today and say you want to record an episode, but sure.

Matt - CDWA (00:31.394)
Don't give away all the industry secrets.

Dave (00:33.827)
okay. I don't know if, I don't know we have any industry secrets, man. I think we're still trying to break into the industry, let alone have access to the secrets. If there are secrets, I would love to know them. If you listen to this podcast and you do a podcast and you know the secrets, please, you can follow us on Twitter, or join our discord and tell us the secrets. We would love to know the secrets. The discord continues to grow.

Matt - CDWA (00:37.735)
You

That's true. That's true.

Matt - CDWA (00:45.132)
That's a great point. I didn't think of that.

Dave (01:00.399)
It's been a little quiet this week because everyone's been kind of busy. But yeah, you know, we'd love to have you in the discord and talk comics with us and our discord friends. We also have a tick tock and Instagram account. I have been saying we post fairly regularly. I think I need to back it down to we post weekly. Maybe it's infrequent, maybe our post strategy is infrequent, but we do post.

Matt - CDWA (01:04.47)
Yeah

Matt - CDWA (01:19.138)
Yeah, well, it's everything else.

Matt - CDWA (01:24.108)
A lot's been going on. It's okay though. I think my posts are going to be ramping up when I'm sitting on the couch watching football starting this week. Like there's going be a lot more hopefully discordant from my side. So yeah. Yeah.

Dave (01:30.83)
Alright.

Dave (01:35.363)
I love to hear it. I love to hear it. So this episode, it's a little different from our usual, but I just want to preface with four years, Matt and I have been saying that DC animation is the best comic book animation. And the topic at hand today doesn't do anything to change my mind.

Marvel might have had the live action movies, the animation crown belongs to the distinguished competition.

Matt - CDWA (02:13.408)
Wow, that's high praise.

Dave (02:16.015)
So if you remember back in May, Matt tricked me into watching an animated Superman movie. Yeah. However, that experience directly responsible for what's happening now. So if you didn't listen to the May episode, I talked a little bit about the DC animated movie universe. It's a 16 part arc that ran from 2013 to 2020. And after we did that battle of the Super sons episode,

Matt - CDWA (02:21.111)
You

Dave (02:45.199)
we were talking about maybe doing some more DC animation and we really wanted to do like this whole 16 part DC animated movie universe run or whatever you'd like to call it. So we're kicking things off. We're kicking that off with what is in my opinion, the only adaptation of the Flashpoint comic event that comes close to replicating the scale.

Matt - CDWA (03:08.801)
You

Dave (03:12.225)
and like really fun alternate universe stuff that the comics can do.

Matt - CDWA (03:17.398)
Don't bury the lead, man. Don't bury the lead.

Dave (03:21.751)
I call it like I see it.

Matt - CDWA (03:23.372)
Yeah, I agree. Were there any other interpretations outside of the one interpretation that I'm thinking of of this?

Dave (03:30.947)
You mean the Flash live -action movie that we both universally hated?

Matt - CDWA (03:32.47)
Yes. Yes. That I think most people universally hated, but yes.

Dave (03:37.263)
Yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of people didn't hate it because it was just like it was an emcee. You want to be joke fast bullshit with a bunch of nostalgia bombs. And that's like what people want to see. It's look, I I hate to say it, but that that that type of comic book superhero movie is 100 percent for the normies. That is for like your average moviegoer that just wants to sit back, not think and watch.

Matt - CDWA (03:53.932)
Dude.

Dave (04:05.684)
a comedy that also has superpowers in it. Sorry.

Matt - CDWA (04:10.56)
So I still haven't seen Deadpool Wolverine, but I know there's a lot of that in that movie as well, But. Flash, the Flash movie was bad, like it was bad. That's not even like the nostalgia stuff, like the movie was just bad. It made like no sense. Bad movie slapping on the nose, slapping on the nose.

Dave (04:21.433)
Yes.

Dave (04:25.187)
Yes, bad movie. Bad movie. The the CW flash show with Greg Gustin. They tried to do a flash point type of thing to

Matt - CDWA (04:32.812)
You can see.

Matt - CDWA (04:37.184)
I didn't see it, I'm sure it was probably executed way better than that movie. get, I get, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's a good point.

Dave (04:40.857)
yeah, was better than the flash movie for sure. But still, know, flash, flash point, the comic flash point is a really tough thing to adapt. And I don't understand why they keep trying to do it because you really can't. You can never do it justice. But this movie comes incredibly close and I haven't I guess I haven't really said what we actually watched, but we watched the first part of the DC animated movie universe 2013's Justice League Flashpoint Paradox. And now we're going to talk about it.

Matt - CDWA (04:49.783)
Yeah, I would.

Matt - CDWA (05:10.828)
Yeah man, yeah we are.

Dave (05:13.645)
And you know what, I'll just, I'll kick it off with my opening thought. This was a really strange way to introduce a connected movie universe. And it probably should have been a flash movie and not called Justice League.

Matt - CDWA (05:29.76)
Yeah, part of me, part of me though, like the people that were buying these movies like are familiar with the characters. Like that was one of my points is like you have to appreciate this movie. Like I feel like you have to inherently know the characters. Like most people know Batman and Superman, but like Hal Jordan, like, mean, I feel like the people who bought this movie or went and saw this movie, like I, and I bought, I was buying, no, yeah, I was, it was after.

Dave (05:56.045)
It wasn't in theaters. It was not a theatrical release.

Matt - CDWA (05:59.04)
I was buying all these DVDs when they came out. So for the beginning of this, feel like I have like most of them upstairs, but you were kind of in this animated universe. So it was kind of a weird starting point per se, but the people who were buying and watching these movies were pretty invested and know the characters at this point. So I think that's why it was kind of okay, I guess. But I think for like the normie audience, yeah, I think that is like a weird kind of starting point with Flashpoint for sure.

Dave (06:27.375)
Like that kind of proves my point for me though, because this wasn't for the normies. This is animation made for the comic book fan. And it's very obvious very quickly that this is a comic book adaptation with some liberties taken for animation and brevity because we have a, it's a 90 minute movie and not like a multiple months spanning comic book event.

Matt - CDWA (06:33.43)
No, not at all.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (06:43.606)
Yeah. Sure.

Matt - CDWA (06:56.397)
Yeah.

Dave (06:56.975)
But, you know, I, everyone knows the Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Superman, Flash, Batman. People know those characters like the Flash has had multiple live action TV shows, had one in the 2010s ish. I guess it was 2010s with the CW show started. There's that one from the 80s. I got to assume there was one before that. I think there was. I don't know. But why? I just don't know why had to be called Justice League. The Justice League was barely in this movie.

Matt - CDWA (07:03.852)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Matt - CDWA (07:17.43)
Yeah, I was -

Matt - CDWA (07:26.592)
It should have been Batman Flash, if anything. Like, I don't know.

Dave (07:30.777)
Call it a flash movie, man. His name's in the second part of the title, Flashpoint. Flash, it's Flash movie. Or just call it the Flashpoint paradox, because you weren't making a movie for theatrical release, you weren't making it for normies off the street to buy it at Walmart and Target and Best Buy. You made this for comic book fans.

Matt - CDWA (07:31.927)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (07:37.226)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (07:50.57)
I think if you go look in that chronology though, most of the movies were Justice League something. Justice League, Doomsday, Justice League. I feel like a lot of those movies were Justice League.

Dave (07:56.143)
You know what? have it on another tab right now. Let's take a look. One, two, three, four. There's five out of 16 are Justice League.

Matt - CDWA (08:05.73)
But like before though, before this one or after?

Dave (08:09.919)
I'm sorry. Six. Six are called Justice League in in the in the DC animated movie universe. So these 16 movies, are six Justice League movies.

Matt - CDWA (08:13.401)
Yeah, there's a lot of

Matt - CDWA (08:17.76)
Okay. Six. Okay. Yeah.

Dave (08:24.527)
In the tomorrow verse, which is the the one at the the cacti universe after this one there are

Matt - CDWA (08:27.116)
This one after it?

Dave (08:35.225)
There are nine movies and...

Five of them are Justice League.

Matt - CDWA (08:41.176)
I think I think Justice League for them is just that's their Avengers, know, like that's how they sell things is like Justice League. Everything is Justice League branded or most is Justice League branded.

Dave (08:48.132)
Yeah.

Dave (08:54.755)
It's funny, too, because the the tomorrow verse ends with a three part movie and it's just crisis. Yeah, it's crisis like you didn't have to call it justice. You just called it crisis on infinite earths and people still would have bought it.

Matt - CDWA (09:01.429)
that's that crisis movie. I actually do want to watch that.

Matt - CDWA (09:07.99)
Yeah, that's true.

Dave (09:11.887)
But yeah, the chronology is a little interesting when you look at the titles for the 16 part arc that we just started because like Batman Hush is in there and it's near the end. it's really. Yeah, it doesn't it. It's a connected universe in the sense that all of these movies take place in the same DC universe, but they're not like.

Matt - CDWA (09:28.098)
Like a one -off.

Dave (09:39.371)
movie to movie connected, I don't think. But I mean, maybe they are. We're going to find out because we're going to keep watching these. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (09:40.822)
Yeah, we'll find out. Yeah, I love them. I love it

I, the whole concept of like Flashpoint, I just love. So I mean, like, you're, you're a recap guy, but Flashpoint pretty much Barry Allen goes in the past to save his mother. And when doing that, completely alters everything. And, you know, the, the, lot of the good heroes are bad and the whatnot. And the main crux of this is Wonder Woman and the Amazons and Themyscira are going against Aquaman.

Dave (09:52.44)
Me too.

Matt - CDWA (10:17.188)
And I like Black Manta actually being on Aquaman's side, but all the the sea guys are together and that is like the main crux of this. And I just remember like the comic book event, dude, like. That's when you kind of started getting into DC a little bit more like I know you're really skeptical of Blackest Night, and I remember you get like mad and throw my previews away like it like you're talking a lot. Straight up took it out of my hand when I got in the car and boy.

Dave (10:40.271)
You make it sound like I took it out of your hand and threw it in the trash, like...

That did not happen. Did not happen.

Matt - CDWA (10:46.676)
and bullied me and threw it in the trash. I think I'm pretty sure you were like on board at this point. And I remember at Flashpoint, like a lot of the tie -ins are actually pretty good. And I was skeptical, but a lot of them were really good. And there was a bunch of them, but I remember reading the Aquaman and the Wonder Woman series and the Batman series had weird art, but I did like it. Like there was the whole universe. This was like one of those quality events that I really liked. So seeing that translated from

I got my handy dandy Flashpoint hardcover here for those. I know we're on audio now primarily, but like just flipping through this man brought back a lot of memories, really good art by Andy Kubert. And the thing, this book, I mean, this, this movie really followed this and was a really good adaptation. So if you didn't watch, if you didn't read Flashpoint, you got most of the high notes. And Dave said, yeah, they took some creative liberties, but for the most part it was relatively accurate. So.

I like seeing that again.

Dave (11:45.039)
Yeah, actually, I think one of the one of my thoughts after I finished the movie and I wrote this down pretty much right away. To your point, the Flashpoint comics major event, in fact, led directly into the new 52 relaunch. And it took a long time for this thing to resolve a span of multiple months, multiple spin off comics had some incredibly epic scale to it.

Matt - CDWA (11:59.383)
Major.

The new 52 bit, yes sir.

Dave (12:15.159)
And maybe this is a premature opinion because we're just getting started with the animated universe here. But wouldn't it have been cool if this was the last part of the DC AMU and it led directly into the tomorrow verse? Like Flashpoint was a two or three parter. And then when it all resolved, like, boom, it just pops you into like the next DC connected movie universe. If they had planned this out in advance and then the tomorrow verse was like.

the result of what Flash did in Flashpoint.

Matt - CDWA (12:46.102)
That would have been cool. feel like. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Dave (12:48.781)
I can tell you're going to shit all over what I just said right now. can see the look on your face.

Dave (12:58.351)
Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. Please don't spoil it. Apocalypse War is the last one in the DCAMU.

Matt - CDWA (13:07.562)
Okay, yeah, I don't want to I've seen that because I heard that movie was crazy. So that I had like bought like most of them and then I have like a little bit of a gap and then someone's like, dude, this apocalypse war like you need to watch this movie and I watched it and We'll just say it sets up the next thing but I won't get into it You're gonna get what you hurt. Did you that apocalypse wars movie is crazy. You're gonna get what you want. Yes

Dave (13:12.373)
Mm

Dave (13:25.579)
OK, all right, so I guess I'm still going to get what I want then. OK.

Dave (13:33.107)
I so is this one, though. There's so much violence in this. Let's let's pivot to violence. It's one of my favorite things.

Matt - CDWA (13:35.506)
We should, we should. Okay. So, my second point was death count. I know I miss some people, Steve Trevor getting choked out by Wonder Woman, getting hung Lex Luthor get Lex Luthor Lex. I almost said Lex Luger, the wrestler, but Lex Luthor. I do that all the time. Lex Luthor getting, he just got straight up stabbed by Aquaman. No, he's alive. He's alive. He's still alive. He's still alive. Yeah. He's in.

Dave (13:58.959)
Lex Luger's dead, right? Though, the wrestler, he also is dead. is he? good for him! never mind.

Matt - CDWA (14:04.374)
He's messed up. He's in a wheelchair. He's got a lot of help. He's, he's hanging on though. Keep it up. Keep hard on the body, man. Hard on the body. Understand how Jordan cyborg or Billy Batson gets de -shazam and gutted by Wonder Woman off screen, which was pretty crazy.

Dave (14:09.199)
Those guys, man, those wrestlers really...

Dave (14:27.417)
Killing kids, I like that shit.

Matt - CDWA (14:29.438)
Aquaman gets the hero's death from Wonder Woman spoilers. Reverse Flash gets straight up shot in the face by Thomas Wayne Batman and his brain matter is showing.

Dave (14:43.267)
Technically, get shot in the back of the head.

Matt - CDWA (14:46.156)
Yeah, he didn't get shot in the back of head, this movie, like we watched it.

Dave (14:51.853)
You missed you grifter. We saw his dead body in a pan near the end and he was stuck full of arrows, Amazon arrows.

Matt - CDWA (14:59.67)
I'm sure I missed a bunch of people, but those were just kind of the highlight. Yeah, I mean, pretty much everybody died and that was like Batman's parting words is like, no one's going to die if you can, you know, make this right or whatever. it was just, this movie was a bloodbath, bro. Like it was crazy. So welcome to DC animation. We're not doing this in live action. I can tell you that.

Dave (15:02.275)
I mean, pretty much all of them died.

Dave (15:19.629)
Yeah, dude. No, no, not at all. And you know, this is a thing in the comics where traditionally DC has been a little bit more liberal with the violence than Marvel. At least back in like maybe the 70s, 80s and 90s, it might not be that way today because every, you know, since the MCU kind of took off Marvel's Marvel's comics tend to be more.

Matt - CDWA (15:33.665)
Okay?

Dave (15:47.277)
rooted in reality, we kind of stick to real world, real world cities, real world type of things. it's a lot, the stakes feel a little bit more real and a little higher. There's maybe more violence now in Marvel than there was in the past. But I remember reading Marvel comics in like the 90s and they wouldn't even show blood in those comics. The blood would be like a different color. It'd be gray or it would be just not red. And DC has never really shied away from the violence. And they clearly don't shy away from the violence in the animated stuff, which I love.

Matt - CDWA (16:08.664)
Mmm.

Matt - CDWA (16:16.197)
So not at all. Yeah.

Dave (16:17.241)
I think that's great.

Matt - CDWA (16:22.93)
What else?

Dave (16:23.523)
I don't have any more notes on the violence. I think you covered all of the violence.

Matt - CDWA (16:26.952)
No, it was just it was just very violent soldiers getting shot like it did. Yeah, it was just a very violent movie, which was cool, which

Dave (16:37.261)
What was your favorite death?

Matt - CDWA (16:43.19)
man. I mean, the most shocking was the Billy Batson one. like, whoa. Like she de -kitted him and it was like, she just gutted this kid and throws him on the ground. He's just laying there. I'm like, damn, like, all right, we're not really playing around here. Steve Trevor was pretty bad too. She just hung him, just hung him like flew up in the air and hung it. But I'm like, whoa. Okay. It was a slow. Yeah. It was a slow.

Dave (17:01.295)
That was mine. Yeah, that was mine.

I wouldn't even say that she flew up in the air because that implies that it was quick. She floated up into the air and this man was was kicking and gurgling. It was a painful death and I I that was my favorite one because that really set the tone for who this Wonder Woman is. Then she is absolutely brutal. mean, obviously, but she cut mirrors head off.

Matt - CDWA (17:22.857)
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (17:29.964)
Yeah. And she, so I didn't haven't read Flashpoint in a while, but based on this movie was like, was Aquaman like cheating with Wonder Woman? Is that like what it was implied or like, I was confused. Cause I was like, why, why do you care? If this

Dave (17:42.467)
Yeah, so I wrote that down. Like I wrote down that.

Basically, this whole war started because Aquaman's a scumbag and fucked Wonder Woman and Mirasaw.

Matt - CDWA (17:51.104)
Okay, that's what I Okay, that's what, all right, all right. I wasn't crazy then, so, all right.

Dave (17:55.437)
Yeah, yeah, Aquaman kind of a piece of shit.

Matt - CDWA (17:59.392)
And then mirror came to confront Wonder Woman and got gutted. Like, they're just trying to kill her. Yeah. Yeah. I must say, I do love this interpretation of Wonder Woman. I love, I love, I've always loved like badass Wonder Woman. that she's just, Wonder Woman to me, like I love Gail Goodell. She was, I thought she was good as Wonder Woman, but like I want.

Dave (18:02.733)
I don't know if confess their white word. She tried to try to assassinate her and then got her head cut off.

Dave (18:14.509)
Yeah.

Dave (18:25.293)
Mm

Matt - CDWA (18:28.248)
like a linebacker, like a real Wonder Woman and a real Amazon. I want her to be like eight foot tall, beautiful, but like Jack. Like that's what a Wonder Woman should be. Like she should be like the most fierce fighter. like, I hope that WB Wonder Woman game comes out, but probably not anymore. Just as a side, cause there's like 20 Wonder Woman games. Perfect. Yeah.

Dave (18:46.211)
Yeah, it'll come out as a live service game where everyone plays as Wonder Woman on the island of Finskira. Yeah, that'd be terrible, but you'll get it. Don't worry. The reanimated corpse of Rocksteady games will make it. Don't worry.

Matt - CDWA (19:01.716)
Exactly. It's definitely not going to be what I want it to be.

Dave (19:06.219)
No, will not. I will say quick quick aside because I do. also love Wonder Woman, the current Wonder Woman comic, the Tom King Wonder Woman. God, dude, so good.

Matt - CDWA (19:10.85)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (19:16.524)
Good? I haven't read it yet. It's good? Daniel C. Ampere is doing the art too, which he's a really good artist. I don't know if he still is, but he did like the first couple of

Dave (19:24.183)
All the all the stuff on and I know we had we did an episode about this about the whatever it's called New Dawn or whatever the DC yeah, Donna Donna DC now and I was I know I was highly skeptical of everything that they were doing, but I gotta say the tightened up line. The the flagship comics, you know the the Batman Flash Green Lantern Wonder Woman. Who cares about Superman? Those are all.

Matt - CDWA (19:31.33)
Don't do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (19:39.628)
Tighten it up.

to make sure.

Dave (19:50.475)
Incredible books. My only complaint is they cancelled outsiders already and that book was wonderfully written and extremely interesting Was lucius fox a batwoman and then some random new character or maybe it's not a new character I just don't know my DC but it those three and dad loved it. It was sort of a It was kind of a reimagining of planetary if you remember that comic from wildstorm It was kind of like that and that the there was a

Matt - CDWA (20:14.412)
I've never read it, I remember BAF.

Dave (20:20.183)
issue where the characters from planetary did show up. But, yeah, man, I love all that stuff, but that in particular, Wonder Woman has been, I know a lot of people don't like Tom King and that's fine. You don't have to. I do think, and this may be a bit of a hot take. I do think he's doing an incredible job with writing Diana as a very strong and empowering figure, for

Matt - CDWA (20:23.512)
Bye.

Bye.

Dave (20:48.705)
younger girls to read and look up to. think he's doing a really, really good job with that aspect of Wonder Woman, which I think is a really important piece of Wonder Woman as a character. Dude, it's great. I highly encourage anyone that's not picking this up to read it.

Matt - CDWA (20:56.472)
I would agree. agree. 100%. All right. I might. Well, you just sold me because most of Tom King's writing that I just don't necessarily. I don't hate Tom King. I've actually met Tom King, like his, I have an awesome. He wasn't writing for DC back then. He was just on a podcast I used to listen to a lot. He was super nice, but, a lot of his stuff was just like really depressing and it was kind of like.

Dave (21:07.853)
Yeah, you tell him that you don't like any of his shit?

Okay.

Matt - CDWA (21:23.906)
PlayStation sad dad stuff. to hear this book's a little bit more uplifting and like empowering, like I actually am going to check that out because the art, the art, the art is good. So that was, that also sells it for me.

Dave (21:30.947)
I mean, her...

I wouldn't say that the comic is uplifting. The tone can be pretty somber and he kind of puts Diana through the wringer a little bit. But I think it's because of the conflict that he brings to her in the series. It lends itself to some really satisfying moments of her kind of like standing tall in the face of incredible adversity and overcoming. Dude.

Matt - CDWA (21:38.68)
Okay?

great. Alright. Okay.

Matt - CDWA (22:01.078)
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. That's what we want. That's what I want. Yeah.

Dave (22:04.527)
It might be my favorite current DC comic, but I don't know. Flash has been really, really incredible as well.

Matt - CDWA (22:09.131)
Wow.

Matt - CDWA (22:13.74)
Look at that, Dave! Big DC Digital guy. DC Dave. DC Dave, baby, I love it. Good stuff. What did you think about the animation?

Dave (22:15.875)
Big DC guy.

Should pull off my mask.

Dave (22:28.803)
I'm glad you asked. So no, no, no, I liked it.

Matt - CDWA (22:30.296)
I feel like it got set up. Just how you said it. Someone's gonna have a gun behind them or something. Come off screen, come back.

Dave (22:38.319)
I wrote down a couple of things about this. So one, like everyone in this movie is fucking Jack.

Matt - CDWA (22:47.97)
Dude, I hated Superman, regular Superman, and I did not like Aquaman. Like, Super Jack and his head was really tiny. Aquaman's head was tiny. I got on with it.

Dave (22:56.523)
Aquaman's got that like I'm on the juice bodybuilder body That man is not Natty Ain't no way he's he's taking some fucking whale juice that man's hopped up He's got that he's got that super HGH from the from the ocean floor in there. I Don't know man, I don't know maybe we haven't discovered that yet. I don't know But in general, I thought the animation was was really solid it's there's definitely some

Matt - CDWA (22:59.146)
Yeah, yeah dude, that was crazy.

Matt - CDWA (23:07.608)
What the hell?

What kind of whale juice you talking about?

Dave (23:25.771)
Anime influence and I think that's due to the time that was right when I think anime was starting to influence American animation quite a bit more than it had in the past, but I was OK with it.

Matt - CDWA (23:26.774)
Yeah, yes.

Matt - CDWA (23:38.826)
I really liked it, especially coming from that Superman movie. I made you watch to this. was like, man, like this in like the new tomorrow verse stuff. Like it's not the worst after you watch it and it's fine. But like, I really liked this more traditional, I guess, animation. And there's definitely an anime influence as well too. So, which I'm cool with. I don't mind it, but yeah.

Dave (24:00.675)
Yeah, there was only one. One thing that I didn't like about the animation, and that was the very end of the movie when Flash they have it's sort of like a flash running. Not montage, but like when he's like he's like running up the building and then he's hopping from like wherever, like the top of the building to a helicopter to the another building. There was some CG in there.

Matt - CDWA (24:16.242)
his arms are always like

Matt - CDWA (24:28.928)
No, I didn't catch you.

Dave (24:29.295)
that did not blend really well. It didn't look great, but everything, was like the last 60 seconds, I was kind of like, what, you didn't need to do this. But everything before that was, no notes. I thought it was great.

Matt - CDWA (24:41.526)
That's awesome. missed that. What about, you know, some of the actors? You're, if I remember, I'm going on a limb here. Were you a big Grey's Anatomy guy? I feel like we've talked about this. Yes, he was. Exactly. Okay. We're going full circle. Do you know who was the Flash? Son of a bitch!

Dave (24:56.665)
We did talk, we talked about this during the SuperSuns episode. Yeah.

That son of a bitch, Karev.

I wrote that down. That's in my notes. It says that son of a bitch carafe with three exclamation points.

Matt - CDWA (25:13.95)
And, you know, as a person, don't, no judgment on anyone who's in a heterosexual relationship. love my kids, wife, cyborg, Michael B. Jordan, guy I'd go gay for. Guy I'd go gay for. Not gonna lie. Good looking man. Great looking man. Love him. Yeah. Okay. He's a little, he's a little old for you, but Michael B. Jordan.

Dave (25:25.101)
Really? Okay. It'd be interesting for me, but...

Dave (25:35.897)
I got daddy issues.

Matt - CDWA (25:38.562)
That's no, no, no, I'm we put that up. We're working on that. I was going to say it, but I'm not trying to put your business up the street, but that's okay. Yeah, no, no, but there's some really good acting. mean, Kevin Conroy's Batman, dude, like I forgot, you know, hit me there, here in his voice again. You know, good, good. Like I was like, wow, they got a lot of like Hollywood talent for this movie that I don't really remember. I guess probably at the time I wasn't even thinking about it, but.

Dave (25:40.599)
Working on that in therapy to from your air.

Dave (25:48.279)
Nah, I don't care. It's fine.

Dave (25:58.393)
Yep.

Matt - CDWA (26:09.142)
I watched this on Amazon, so you know, if you pause it and it does like the x -rays thing, because like the first time I watched it was on the DVD, so I wouldn't have really known. But when you got that x -ray thing and it pops up, everyone's face is on the side. I was like, I didn't even know this.

Dave (26:12.046)
Mm -hmm.

Dave (26:17.09)
Yeah.

Dave (26:22.208)
There's a notable omission to your list Matthew you're doing my boy dirty Nathan Fillion

Matt - CDWA (26:28.448)
Who else is in it? yeah, dude, perfect Hal Jordan every time. Perfect. I feel like he's Hal Jordan in most of these movies too. I feel like they cast him. was like...

Dave (26:34.073)
Yeah. You know, I was, I was actually.

Yeah, yeah, mean, Nathan Fillion's a big voice acting guy. He does a lot of this type of animation because I'm pretty sure the dude is legitimately a nerd. Like he's into this kind of stuff for real. You know, because obviously he did. He's a lot of Halo voice work, too. Yeah, no, but I was I was thinking about some of the casting when I. Harkened back to Alex Karev.

Matt - CDWA (26:43.33)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (26:49.26)
Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's true. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (26:55.82)
Yup. Buck. He's Bucket Halo. Yeah.

Dave (27:08.719)
I don't know the actor's name. I just know it was Alex Karev and how I couldn't get through the movie before because I was watching Grey's actively at the time and all I could see was his fucking face. And this time when the movie started, that was in the back of my mind. But I said, you know what? Don't think about it. You're just going to go in. And you haven't watched that show in probably 10 years. You're safe. And I was for a while. And then eventually it crept in.

Matt - CDWA (27:10.06)
Yeah, just -

Matt - CDWA (27:17.58)
Yeah, dude. Yeah, you did.

Matt - CDWA (27:29.645)
Doesn't matter.

Dave (27:38.539)
the corners of my mind and eventually by the time he was trying to get his speed powers back with Thomas Wayne, all I could see was Karev whenever Barry Allen would speak. yeah, and the thing is, Nathan Fillion is one of my favorite actors. I love pretty much all the shows that he's been in. I love Firefly. I love Castle.

Matt - CDWA (27:51.678)
Good looking man dude. Good looking man with that jacket.

Matt - CDWA (28:01.09)
He's a good eye.

Dave (28:07.949)
I even love that dumb ass cop show he's in now the rookie. I will watch Nathan Fillion and anything and I can hear him do the voice of Green Lantern and go, Hey man, that's how Jordan. Yeah, that's a perfect how Jordan voice. I love, I love it. I don't see Nathan Fillion and go, I'm disconnected from this movie now. Like I can't immerse myself in it, but for whatever reason that dude that voices Barry Allen, the Alex Karev guy.

Matt - CDWA (28:10.444)
The rookie! The rookie, yes. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (28:23.33)
Yeah.

Dave (28:35.961)
That's the only voice he has. All I can see is that one character, because that's the only thing he's known for. His Graves Anatomy. It breaks the experience a little bit, because he also has kind of a unique voice.

Matt - CDWA (28:41.45)
Yeah, that's true.

Matt - CDWA (28:48.568)
Yeah.

Dave (28:51.215)
That was a bummer.

Matt - CDWA (28:52.906)
I don't know. There's something about how like, Fillion's voice, like, I don't know, it just matches how Jordan, it blends so perfectly and it like, it's like in my mind's eye, that's kind of what I hear. You know, like I would, yeah, I don't know. Subconsciously, I don't know what it is. I don't know, cause I've seen a lot of these movies. I don't know, but he just really works well as that character. I think cause maybe I've never seen Firefly or any of those, but like he's very swashbuckly like Nolan North to me. So maybe that's why that.

Dave (29:00.611)
Mm -hmm.

Dave (29:20.271)
Yes. Yeah, I think that's it. These fireflies awesome. The special effects probably didn't age super well, if I'm being honest, and it's it's kind of a weird show like it's a sci fi show and like people speak a blend of English and Chinese. It's an acquired taste, but it's it's worth watching, especially because.

Matt - CDWA (29:21.718)
that voice fits but I don't know yeah I've heard it's really good and like

Matt - CDWA (29:30.386)
I watch old stuff all the time. I watch old stuff all the time, so...

Dave (29:47.449)
Joss Whedon did get to finish the story because the show got canceled prematurely, in my opinion, but he finished the story with the movie Serenity. And yeah, like the production quality jump up that you get from Firefly to Serenity, it's worth the payoff.

Matt - CDWA (29:52.268)
Mm

Yes, I remember Trinity.

Matt - CDWA (30:04.533)
Interesting.

Dave (30:06.607)
And oddly enough, the I forget the character's name now. The actress was Summer Glau. She played the girl that they were trying to keep safe in Firefly and Serenity. But she also played a character in that short lived Terminator TV show that was on like Fox or something. That show was good, man. What happened to that show? This I just unlocked the memory that that show existed and now I'm now I'm.

Matt - CDWA (30:26.645)
This is good!

Dave (30:35.823)
I'm pining for this show that I didn't even remember until 30 seconds ago. Anyway, I don't want to take us too far off course. There's one thing we didn't talk about yet. And you know, I have to bring this up. But I absolutely loved that wimpy ass, skinny little scared of his own shadow Clark Kent.

Matt - CDWA (30:38.508)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (30:53.932)
you

Matt - CDWA (31:01.036)
I know why you turned into a southern gentleman. I'm, yeah you did, were like, I must bring it up. Go Tigers. don't know why it came out, came out. Jerry Jones. I must bring it All right. That's fine, dude. I mean, he's the most powerful Bing, of course they have to keep him locked up behind, you know,

Dave (31:04.301)
I didn't.

Dave (31:08.131)
I didn't say it like that.

I've lived in Texas for eight years,

I don't think it did. have to, when I listen back, well, that'll be, I think you're hearing things. Don't, don't deflect. Address my comment.

Matt - CDWA (31:30.648)
10 plates of titanium. But he does work though. He comes in at the end, he scorches mad dudes. He gets it in and then he flies off like a bitch, but it's okay. He does what he's gotta do.

Dave (31:32.781)
Nah, he was a bitch.

Dave (31:42.523)
But what I didn't understand was when he showed back up at the end why he hadn't gotten any bigger.

Matt - CDWA (31:45.632)
And yeah, like he's out in the sun's rays, but he hadn't got anybody. I don't know.

Dave (31:49.741)
Yeah, like shouldn't this have like if it activated his powers shouldn't also maybe you know, we bulked up a little bit. I don't know.

Matt - CDWA (31:55.961)
I dunno, he wasn't in the sun for that long I guess, but yeah.

Dave (32:00.055)
It was just refreshing to have a Justice League movie with almost no Superman in it.

Matt - CDWA (32:03.619)
That's what the kids, that's what the pessimists say nowadays.

Dave (32:07.523)
I mean, after having to watch that Superman movie in May.

Matt - CDWA (32:12.726)
Yeah, I mean, you were due for some time off from some superman. My goodness, this art is so good, dude. This cuber art is ridiculous.

Dave (32:21.1)
I love those guys. So good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're all over 90s Marvel.

Matt - CDWA (32:23.586)
They're so good. It looks like Jim Lee stuff, but yeah, I might have to read that again.

Matt - CDWA (32:31.862)
Yeah, the good old days. We'll have to take some old comics out.

Dave (32:36.087)
Mm hmm. Just some other like quick hit stuff that I Barack Obama's in the movie. He's kind of a prick. Like he just fires cyborg. He's like, no, you couldn't do this with all your super powered friends. I'm going to just use some regular guys with guns. We'll get this done. Come on, Barack, you know better. As a war criminal himself, he probably should have. He could have written that a little bit better.

Matt - CDWA (32:43.826)
Yeah, he was. was like, there's Obama. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (33:05.122)
You

Dave (33:06.253)
My man bombs in schools. That's undeniable.

Matt - CDWA (33:08.716)
Yeah, yeah, yep.

Dave (33:10.723)
The truth is we haven't had a president that hasn't probably committed a war crime. just, you know.

Matt - CDWA (33:13.714)
yeah, we overlook that. That doesn't matter to us.

Dave (33:16.545)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, this isn't a political podcast. In the in the scene where Barry is like first realizing that like something is different and his mom is outside the police station and they're walking and he's like, Mom, I have to tell you something. And she goes, you're gay. Where did that come from? What was that?

Matt - CDWA (33:20.343)
Yeah,

Matt - CDWA (33:33.482)
Yeah, yeah, well...

This isn't even Garth Ennis Early's 2007. Yeah, I like, yeah, I was like, I picked the wrong movie! Like, I don't know. Not again!

Dave (33:40.719)
I know this is are we talking about the boys again? Like what happened? We just were throwing out weird references This is weird I Love that grifter was in this Yeah, you know me and 90s image and That's my shit So seeing grifter show up and then there was like that that Batman and grifter scene where they fought black mana. I thought that was awesome

Matt - CDWA (33:55.574)
Yeah, I I didn't even forgot he was in this completely.

Dave (34:11.012)
and then reverse flash.

Matt - CDWA (34:15.838)
and go!

Dave (34:17.835)
Everything about Reverse Flash indicates that he should be completely lame, but he is one of my favorite DC villains. I fucking love Reverse Flash.

Matt - CDWA (34:27.774)
Really? Okay. He's sinister. He's like pure evil. So yeah, I get it.

Dave (34:34.989)
Like something about like just the inverted colors of his costume, how he's yellow with the red lightning bolt and. I know. Dude, nothing about this guy should work, but he's always I just love when reverse flash shows up man. I love I and I generally think that most of flashes rogues are kind of lame. And they have lame names like let's be honest. Their names suck. Their power sets are kind of hokey.

Matt - CDWA (34:37.835)
Yeah.

The yellow shouldn't work either. Like, I don't know why it shouldn't work, but it just does.

Matt - CDWA (34:49.804)
Yeah.

Dave (35:04.665)
Captain Cold has a cold gun. The boomerang, have the boomerang throws boomerangs like these are.

You know, we weren't trying real hard, guys.

Matt - CDWA (35:15.99)
I mean, the Batman rogues are much better, but I feel like, because thon is so sinister, like his contrast amongst most of the other rogues, like you take him a lot more seriously. Like, like I'm trying to, I going to say like when the Joker, like now the Joker's like ridiculously overexposed, but like when he, I don't know, like in the, the, just remember the, who's the guy, Scott Snyder, his Batman, like where he didn't start with like the Joker.

Dave (35:29.165)
Yeah, that's fair.

Matt - CDWA (35:45.506)
But when the Joker showed up, was like, yeah, like shit's getting real now. Like that's kind of like, that's how I like the Joker being used. And that's how I like the reverse flash being used, like not overexposed, you know? So I don't know. Yeah. Thon works. I don't know why. Maybe because he kills his mother and he like, he's just cold blooded. I don't know, but it works.

Dave (35:45.561)
Mm

Dave (36:01.549)
Yeah, yeah, there's nothing about him that should be cool.

Yeah. Love them. Big reverse flash guy.

Matt - CDWA (36:11.884)
This is much better than whatever that well, and that flash point was a flash movie. He's like Apocalypse with all this metal in him or dirty look like Doomsday Flash with all my God, I don't even know what it is. Barry Allen with metal poking out of him like trying to stop it. I don't I'm glad I forgot most of that movie, but.

Dave (36:23.833)
Yeah. It's just like another, it's just Barry. Yeah.

Dave (36:33.997)
Yeah, I had forgotten about that part until you just reminded me. So thanks.

Matt - CDWA (36:41.264)
my gosh dude, I'm sorry. Dave, I'm sorry. You probably can't. Grifter, like I'm sorry. I didn't even put it down. I'm just looking at the book now. didn't even put it down. I'm gonna have to read it. So.

Dave (36:45.24)
I see. I can see it. It's my guy. It's my guy.

My guy. Any final thoughts?

Matt - CDWA (36:54.676)
No, I'm really happy we did this. I'm looking forward to the next movie. I didn't even look up what the next movie is, but whenever we get to that, looking forward to that, I will say with some of these battles going on, completely unrelated to this, with some of these battles going on amongst different soldiers and all that. I was like, yo, why can't we get a GI Joe movie like this? Like in this style, like that GI Joe resolute that was like two, a two hour movie or whatever. Like, bro, can we get like an actual

Dave (36:57.657)
Me too.

Dave (37:20.653)
Mm -hmm.

Matt - CDWA (37:22.838)
like ongoing GI Joe something like with this kind of animation and like taken seriously like this, like that would be awesome. But Kickstarter, I don't know.

Dave (37:32.716)
know that the best way to help make that happen.

Buy some action figures, man. I'm doing my part. Buy some damn action figures. Let Hasbro know.

Matt - CDWA (37:39.04)
Yeah, get stocked up. Get some, put some plastic in your, in your home.

Dave (37:46.765)
Yeah, it's the only way.

Matt - CDWA (37:48.892)
We don't need any those those those little pieces aren't choking as during anything around here so that they're perfectly They will pass them. So it's fine. It's all good

Dave (37:52.577)
No, they're fine. They'll pass them. They'll pass them fine. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel the same way. This was I have like I said almost nothing bad to say this was a great movie. I love the DC animation Glad we're doing this. I'm excited to watch more. I can tell you didn't watch the post -credit scene Or you'd have an idea about what's to come

Matt - CDWA (38:18.677)
I must not have watched that far. No, I watched like, well, I did not watch the post credits. Sweet. Sweet. Call the department.

Dave (38:21.471)
Well, post credits means after the credits, my friend.

I know you didn't.

Dave (38:33.007)
Don't mind me while I rub your nose in it. Sorry. I will say they could have tried a little harder with the post credit scene. This happened in 2013, like the MCU had shown you how it's done for mid and post credit scenes. There's no excuses to not have a good one. But this was literally like five seconds long. A boom tube portal opened and those like winged soldier things from Apocalypse flew through it. The next movie is Justice League War.

Matt - CDWA (38:34.84)
Appreciate you.

Matt - CDWA (39:01.502)
That's a good one too. man. Really?

Dave (39:03.533)
Yeah, I think I have watched that one before, but I don't remember it really.

Matt - CDWA (39:09.418)
I mean just skimming these, re I think we're in for a treat. I really don't - All these - I'm really looking forward to these, because all these that are - Yeah.

Dave (39:14.637)
Yeah, me too. Me too. This is the type of.

Dave (39:25.574)
that I am really excited to consume. Yeah, I am always, wait, what the heck? Hold on, we got a little.

Matt - CDWA (39:27.97)
You're

Yeah. Tickin' soon.

Matt - CDWA (39:38.892)
We're a little hiccup, but we're alright, I see you now.

Dave (39:41.22)
What happened though? think I lost a. No, OK. It said there were changes to my device. Sorry everybody. Yeah, it looks like it's still using the right microphones. I don't know what happened there, but it'll be OK anyway. Yeah, this this type of content is exactly what I want to consume when it comes to like comic book and superhero stuff outside of a paper comic book.

Matt - CDWA (39:50.38)
You sound fine.

Matt - CDWA (39:56.172)
Professional podcasting.

Dave (40:09.04)
or a digital comic book, like this is what I love. So bring it on. The more, the better. Although I guess there is a finite amount of this stuff, so we should probably savor it. So I don't know how often we'll do these. Maybe it'll be one a month. Maybe it'll just be whenever we're strapped for time and we gotta crank out an episode. I don't know. And I'll just call Matt up on a Wednesday afternoon and say, hey man, watch a movie tonight. We're gonna record an episode. Cause apparently that's what happened today.

Matt - CDWA (40:09.078)
Yes.

Yes.

Matt - CDWA (40:37.24)
That's what happened. That's what happened. was 7am. 7am. my god. I got the trailer for War. Like the animation looks much better. We might have do this next one. Dude, this is... I'm hyped. This is what I want. These are the interpretations of characters I like, dude. This is what I want.

Dave (40:39.366)
You swears by it. I was up early.

Dave (40:49.552)
We'll just do it next month. We can do everyone. This is our podcast.

Yeah, unfortunately.

Dave (41:00.272)
Yeah, me too. We'll do that in October. But unfortunately, in September, we do owe you another episode of The Boys. So we'll be back in a couple of weeks with part nine of The Boys. We're home stretching it. We're almost there. Can't wait to find out what horrible shit we'll have to read next. So I hope you enjoyed this. We are. We are. Well, I hope everyone enjoyed this.

Matt - CDWA (41:08.107)
no

Matt - CDWA (41:14.978)
We're almost there. We're almost there. We're gonna get it.

Matt - CDWA (41:22.262)
At least we're back on the main we're on the golden path though at least, we're on the main track so we're getting there. I like -

Dave (41:29.498)
this lighter topic for a podcast. We generally had good things to say. We had a fun time watching the movie and a fun time talking about it. yeah, exactly. I like a lot of stuff. I feel like I've got a reputation for hating everything. I don't. I like a lot of things. A lot of things, including all of you that listen to this podcast. So thanks for checking us out. So, yeah, we'll be back in a couple of weeks with a boys episode. We'll have Eric with us.

Matt - CDWA (41:32.6)
you

Matt - CDWA (41:37.42)
We're not curmudgeons. do like some of this stuff. It's just the boy like it's...

Dave (41:58.908)
But until then, my name is Dave. Take care of yourselves, everybody. Bye bye.

Matt - CDWA (42:01.079)
And I'm Matt.

Peace.