86: DC Animation Kinda Goes Hard (Battle of the Super Sons)

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Summary
In this episode, Dave and Matt discuss the DC animated movie Battle of the Super Sons. They provide an overview of the DC animated movie universe and the Tomorrow Verse. They share their thoughts on the movie's animation style, the relationship between Jonathan Kent and Damian Wayne, and the portrayal of Superman and Batman. They also discuss the decision to age up Jonathan Kent in the comic books and express their disappointment with the choice. Overall, they enjoyed the film and express their interest in watching more DC animated movies in the future.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Overview
02:47 Exploring the DC Animated Movie Universe
06:00 The Tomorrow Verse: Another Connected Universe
08:59 The Animation Style of Battle of the Super Sons
11:48 The Dynamic Between Jonathan Kent and Damian Wayne
15:00 Superman and Batman: Supporting Roles
21:01 The Limited Selection of Heroes
24:03 A Fun and Enjoyable Movie
29:11 Disappointing Decision: Aging Up Jonathan Kent
35:32 Looking Forward to More DC Animated Movies

Article referenced, from Rotten Tomatoes:
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/dc-animated-movies-in-order/

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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Transcript

Jonathan Can't (00:02.437)
Matt thinks DC animation soars like a Kryptonian bathing in the sun, but I've got some issues with plot holes and pacing to get off my chest. One thing we can both agree on, Battle of the Super Suns is better than anything the DCEU has produced. Welcome back to the comic dudes, let's get into it.

Jonathan Can't (00:24.869)
So we're a podcast about comic books and comic book related things. We're bi -weekly -ish and you can follow us on socials too if that's your thing. We're on Twitter. Matt and I and our sometimes co -host Eric, our Twitter handles will be in the description of the episode. You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We post there regularly now and we post content on those socials that we don't have on the show. So you should go follow us there if that's your thing.

Before we get into this discussion around Battle of the Super Sons, I want to take a minute to just talk DC animation. Some of the history of it, a couple of noteworthy items. I didn't realize how long this has been around. So the DC animated film stuff kicked off in 2007 with an animated movie called Superman versus Doomsday. And at the time,

Matt - CDWA (01:16.782)
Damn right.

Jonathan Can't (01:18.277)
These movies were mostly standalone. There was no connection between them. They were all just one -off stories that they were telling via animated movies. Starting in 2013, however, they created one single continuity as referred to as the DC animated movie universe. Very original. It was a 16 part arc. The first movie in the DC animated movie universe continuity is Justice League Flashpoint. Like I said, that came out in 2013.

that ran for 16 movies. The final DC AMU film, Justice League Dark War, I'm sorry, Justice League Dark Apocalypse War signaled the end of connectivity. Things for whatever reason, went back to being standalone movies. However, in true DC fashion, they have changed their minds. So they created another connected verse. This one called the Tomorrow Verse.

And that started with Superman, Man of Tomorrow in, I think, 2020. The Tomorrowverse is still going in 2024, the two most recent movies being Justice, the Crisis on Infinite Earths, part one and part two. Battle of the Super Suns. It's a standalone DC animated movie. It released in 2022. So during the Tomorrowverse. So again, in true DC fashion, our continuity is confused.

Matt - CDWA (02:46.862)
Hehehehe

Jonathan Can't (02:47.461)
We have connectivity here, but we have standalone here. It's up to you to figure it out. One thing to note about Battle of the Supersounds, which I found really, really interesting. It has a 100 % fresh rating from critics on Rotten Tomatoes, and it's got an 87 % audience rating. The audience rating doesn't surprise me. The critics rating does. However, it was only nine critics reviews. Maybe these are just fans of DC animation that reviewed it. I don't know. But I still thought it was...

It was pretty interesting. So that kind of brings us up to current on what the DC animated universe is. It's now up to 54 films. I got all this information from an article on Rotten Tomatoes. Actually, I was written by Alex Vow. I will link that article in the show notes for anybody that is interested.

they do a good job of breaking down like where stuff starts and ends and there's actually like a full viewing chronology starting with Batman versus or I mean Superman versus doomsday and Takes you right up to current. So anyone wants to check that out you can however we watched battle of the Super sons a quick plot summary and then we're just gonna jump in a discussion Damien Wayne and Jonathan Kent sons of Bruce Wayne Batman and Clark Kent Superman

have to save the world from Starro. Starro has taken over all of the Justice League and the Teen Titans and they get to know each other and then attempt to save everyone and everything as we know it. And that's a quick plot summary of Battle of the Super Sons. Matt, kick us off with some discussion.

Matt - CDWA (04:35.086)
It's a lot less that plot's a lot more straightforward than any volume of the boys that we've read if you've listened to any of our other previous podcasts very Very straightforward This was refreshing for me a little bit so Yeah, we we decided to just check out some animated movie an animated film By my choice, obviously my love of Superman. So we did battle Super sons

Jonathan Can't (04:43.493)
Very true.

a different type of conversation.

Jonathan Can't (04:51.781)
I'm glad.

Jonathan Can't (05:02.789)
Yeah, that was a mistake for me. I should have weighed in a little bit. I just told you to pick a movie and I should have known it was gonna be some I should have known

Matt - CDWA (05:07.214)
Yeah, and of course I should have started you back with that 20 whatever that 2012 Superman Doomsday movie. Funny story. 2007. I actually, yeah, I actually like collected. I have a lot. I should have brought it down. I have that one, but I collected most of them for a long time. yeah. I got like a lot of those movies. I was collecting them on the regular. So, yeah, I was all about that. The original animated universe.

Jonathan Can't (05:15.909)
2007 I would have watched that man. You know, I love that

Jonathan Can't (05:27.301)
Really?

Matt - CDWA (05:37.006)
That apocalypse war, that dark one that ended the first grouping as well, you would, dude, it's super violent. Like you would, I think you would really like it. You would really like it. Yeah, that one was super intense. I was like, whoa, wasn't ready for that. But this movie, I got some like good, some bad. I'm gonna go through it quick. Like I'm not gonna go, I'll go fast on it, but some good things.

Jonathan Can't (05:43.781)
Yeah, no, I know. There's several of these movies that are rated R.

Jonathan Can't (06:00.453)
You don't have to go fast. We got if you go too fast, it's gonna be like a 10 minute episode, man.

Matt - CDWA (06:02.99)
All right. I want to hit up my good. My first good. Can every superhero movie just do a quick recap like they did of like Superman and Batman meeting each other and having the sons at the beginning? I love that it was like comic book art and comic book looking panels. And that's how they recapped, you know, Superman's whole origin story and him and Batman meeting up and becoming friends. And it was like, cool. It's like, we're getting to a point where these characters are known by everyone. So we really don't need to make

Origin story movies anymore like it's getting like even the kids like they get it like we can we please just wrap this up So that was like my first point Yeah Yeah, dude

Jonathan Can't (06:41.637)
I wrote that down too actually. I loved the quick recap of Clark. However, why didn't I get the same thing for Batman and Damien?

Matt - CDWA (06:51.982)
I think like this was more of a Su - it was more of a Jonathan Kent movie, if anything. Yeah, it's like a Superman movie. Yeah, it was more of a Jonathan Kent kind of origin story as well. Sorry. Well, going into that, you know, I just love Superman and you asked for the you asked for the dad mode. Give me the dad vibes. I'm not going to give you a whole lot of it, but like obviously, if you are a longtime listener or if you're a new listener of this podcast,

Jonathan Can't (06:56.065)
it's definitely a Superman movie. I figured that out about halfway through.

Yeah, sure was. Sure was.

Matt - CDWA (07:20.11)
I love the optimism that Superman brings. If you're, if we get a clip later on socials, I'm actually wearing a Superman shirt. I love that ideal, idealistic, whether it's realistic or not, that idealistic relationship that Jonathan and Superman have. With that said, with that said, I'm going to take a, I'm going to take a pivot in this film. I really liked Damien and Bruce's relationship because.

Jonathan Can't (07:37.605)
B O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O

Matt - CDWA (07:47.886)
Yeah, I had that idealistic upbringing, but I like seeing, and that's the thing that I liked about this movie is the contrast between Batman and Superman. And it showed that other side of fathers that I've known that don't really know how to, they're not really that affectionate. I tell my friends like, Dave, I love you. And he'll be like, I love you back. You know, like I tell my daughter, like I had to discipline my daughter the other day, but I was like, I love you.

some people really struggle with that kind of affection. And it was good to see that represented with like at the end battle when they all come together, you know, spoilers, like Bruce is just like Damien, I'm worried about you, you know? And like that's about as much affection as he's gonna get. And like they had like a hug and an embrace. And like, I really liked that relationship was portrayed as well too, so.

Jonathan Can't (08:42.757)
I did forget the spoiler tag on this, sorry. If you're still here, there will be spoilers for the movie Batman or Battle of the Super Sons. Why do I keep wanting to say Batman? I've misspoken and said Batman instead of something else so many times.

Matt - CDWA (08:44.878)
Yeah, there should be a little bit of a spoiler.

Matt - CDWA (08:54.126)
Isn't it, isn't it Batman Superman battle the super songs? That's what I thought it was. I think that I think it was like Batman Superman battle the super songs or something like that.

Jonathan Can't (08:59.909)
maybe it is, I don't know.

Well, that doesn't explain why I almost said Batman versus Doomsday five minutes ago.

Matt - CDWA (09:06.478)
I have no idea. You just want to see Superman get killed. We got it. We understand. I know we understand. the most important spoiler was Melvin when they were in smallville, that, that kid, the bully, there's this bully Melvin who heckles Jonathan, Jonathan Kent, the whole movie calling him can't hit Kent. And I don't know why, like just Melvin was cracking me up. Just how he was heckling him. Just like this over the top bully, like,

Jonathan Can't (09:09.925)
I do.

Matt - CDWA (09:34.222)
Good job, Jonathan Kent. Like he was so ridiculous. It just, I was watching that scene over my lunch and I just busted out laughing. I don't know why. I'm sure people are walking by like, what the fuck is going on right now? But Melvin was cracking me up. Damien and Jonathan's relationship that evolves throughout this movie. The whole reason this works is much like Superman and Batman, like the optimism versus the skepticism.

Jonathan Can't (09:41.893)
Hehehehehe

Matt - CDWA (10:03.918)
And that's a part of all of us. And that's why I liked that relationship. And I'll talk about their relationship a little bit more, maybe in like hot takes slash controversial, but, just Jonathan's night, naivete and Damien being like the counterpoint to that, like being more realistic and like the scenes in the school that I don't really go into, but just that relationship. And I think whenever you put like teens on it, I don't know why I'm like interested in that phase of life. I know a lot of us.

hated high school and middle school. But like, I think those coming of age stories, invincible, you know, any of those teenage stories, I just get gravitated towards that. Power Rangers, you know?

Jonathan Can't (10:45.349)
I think some of that is like, you see an idealized version of that time of your life. And for many of us, that time, at least for part of it, wasn't super fun. So, you know, you look back on it with rose -colored lenses sometimes, or you want to see, you know, the happy, more fun, what I wish I was doing at that point in life type of a story. I think I'm like armchair psychologist right now, but.

Matt - CDWA (10:50.574)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (10:56.622)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (11:10.99)
Yeah, no, no, that's good. No, that's I didn't really think about it that way. But yeah, that was a I like that. And then my last thing was crypto. Just crypto was the scenes with crypto were awesome. Like crypto just being out of control in the fortress of solitude. I loved it. That was it. Really? That's good. That's good. What?

Jonathan Can't (11:26.757)
We couldn't be more different. We couldn't be more different. Couldn't be more different. I don't like crypto at all. I've never liked crypto. Still don't.

Matt - CDWA (11:38.19)
cryptocurrency or crypto the dog. Yes.

Jonathan Can't (11:40.357)
Yes.

Man there's You know my you know, I hate like beating a dead horse. But like I I hate Superman so much for being like hokey and boring and corny and Like the fact that he's got a super powered dog man's best friend Suped up with heat vision and super strength and flying around everywhere. Dude. It just is corny. It's so corny You probably saw that crypto movie that just came out didn't you?

Matt - CDWA (11:48.398)
This is... Beat it!

Matt - CDWA (12:13.326)
No, thank you for letting me know I need to add that to my list. We didn't know why we didn't do it. It's so bad.

Jonathan Can't (12:17.029)
We ain't watching that for the podcast. I'm not doing that. That's a bridge too far, man. I love you, but I'm not doing that.

Jonathan Can't (12:25.125)
not doing that. It's like all kinds of super, it's all super powered animals.

Matt - CDWA (12:30.702)
Yeah, the super pets because yes, there's like Duke the bat hound or whatever ace the bat hound. Yeah, we did to do that but What Jimmy think good or did you just hate the whole movie?

Jonathan Can't (12:32.581)
Yeah.

Yeah, man.

No, I won't. I will not do it. I refuse.

There are things that, no, there are things that I liked about the movie. I have more questions and complaints than anything. I don't think that's a surprise. However, I, one thing that I wrote down, I don't know if you remember, God, when was this? This is a while, this is a long time ago, going back into like first year of the podcast, we did an episode about who was the best Robin.

Matt - CDWA (12:50.254)
Okay.

Matt - CDWA (13:10.83)
Yeah.

Jonathan Can't (13:11.397)
I went in on Damien Wayne about how much I don't like him The thing that I wrote down while I was watching the movie Five words Damien is still an asshole. That's it

Matt - CDWA (13:13.518)
You sure did.

Matt - CDWA (13:21.678)
That's a point, though!

Jonathan Can't (13:24.581)
I know it's the point. I just don't like it. This was probably like the most tolerable version of Damien that I've seen. So I guess they get credit for that. When Starro Batman was just beating the piss out of Damien both times. I love that.

Matt - CDWA (13:26.606)
Alright.

Matt - CDWA (13:38.35)
Yeah, he was doing that work. It's where we both stop watching for a break. That's pretty funny. Same point.

Jonathan Can't (13:43.909)
Yeah Yeah, I dug that I dug that quite a bit I also I gotta give Damian credit When he hit that bully with the pressure point takedown that shit was hilarious. I was loving that twice again We did go back to the well a little bit here Yeah, yeah, I honestly those are like overall it was it was a fine animation

Matt - CDWA (13:56.078)
Twice. We went back to the well a lot. It came over around a lot. Jokes came around a lot.

Jonathan Can't (14:12.389)
You know, like the it looked good. The characters were animated well. I was just not hand drawn animation as the computer animation, but, you know, it was an it was an enjoyable movie like. In some ways I have to step back and go, hey, this is probably aimed at kids, so maybe you don't have to be so critical, but that flies in the face of like everything that I am. So I wasn't able to separate myself that much, but I do. You know, I had a good time watching it to 40 minute sessions and I was done like it went real quick.

Matt - CDWA (14:20.046)
Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (14:34.126)
Yeah, no, it's -

Jonathan Can't (14:41.893)
You know, it's not like these two hour and 40 minute Marvel origin movies that are just brutal to sit through. So, you know, I appreciated it for its brevity. And I thought the ending was super funny, like that final scene where they're sitting on that grain silo and David just like, so your birthday present, you know, you know what happens. Other than that was good. I agree that Batman and Damian relationship was was interesting. I don't think I've ever seen Batman hug anyone before.

Matt - CDWA (14:46.766)
Yep.

Matt - CDWA (14:58.286)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (15:11.63)
Yes.

Jonathan Can't (15:12.069)
so that was cool. That was cool. but those are most of my goods. I mean, in general, like it was a fun movie, you know? Yeah.

Matt - CDWA (15:18.894)
Yes, it's a fine film. And I think, I think that's why I like, I really like, like these movies a lot. It's because like you said, brevity, they're like an hour, most of them were an hour and a half, hour and 20 minutes. yeah, yeah. so my bad, like I don't have a whole lot of bad, I particularly did not love the art style, but I think that's because a lot of these movies that I watched were the traditional.

animation so like i boot this movie up and i'm like okay sit down i'm ready to go got my popcorn or whatever and then i see like this weird do you remember that spider -man show on mtv by any chance like it it reminded me of that like that's the vibe i got from it that's a very deep that's a very very yeah that's a very deep cut but like that

Jonathan Can't (16:00.869)
I do actually.

That's a deep cut man. That's from like 2004 or something.

2003 -2004, somewhere around there.

Matt - CDWA (16:13.422)
Yep. That's what I thought of when I look it up, look it up. That's what I thought of when I, booted this up. I was like, I don't love it, but I don't necessarily hate it either. I just, and as the movie kind of progressed and went on, it was fine. I got used to it, but I prefer traditional animation. I thought Batman looked really cool in this style, but like, I, I didn't love the animation.

Jonathan Can't (16:17.989)
I'm looking at that.

Matt - CDWA (16:43.15)
Did you get a year on it?

Jonathan Can't (16:45.125)
I did so it takes place. I think it takes place after the 2002 live action film. It was 13 episodes and it aired in 2003 on MTV.

Matt - CDWA (16:54.67)
Okay.

Matt - CDWA (17:03.438)
That's that that sounds right. Because I think it was after the movie, obviously. Yeah. And then I was like kind of confused if Damien knew who Superman was, but they revealed that late earlier on. But I was just like, this or not Damien Jonathan. I was like, does Jonathan know that his dad is Superman? Like, I was really confused for the longest time. And then it kind of came together. I was like, OK, he doesn't know. But he finds out and.

But I thought that could have been done a little bit better, but I'm sure you have some critiques that I want to hear about more. I kind of took it for what it was. So I like your more critical view.

Jonathan Can't (17:40.197)
I do. I do.

So even though I appreciated the really quick journey of Clark through life, I did not need a retelling of his origin from the sense of like, yes, I know, Krypton exploded, baby in a spaceship, lands on Earth. I didn't need any of that. And I actually, I wrote down, I did not need another retelling of this origin. That's the first thing I have written on my notes. And then I immediately had to walk it back for myself.

because that was how they showed Starro coming to Earth. And this is the first of what I feel are many plot inconsistencies. If Starro hitched a ride on Baby Clark's spaceship, why did he wait until 20, 30 some years later to take over the JLA Watchtower?

Matt - CDWA (18:43.31)
kill him right there and get him beat up with like a...

Jonathan Can't (18:45.989)
Well, no, they didn't know he snuck on the ship. But like if I'm like a hive mind, alien world conquering being, why am I biding my time on Earth for 30 years before I make a move? Where where did he get bigger and stronger, Matt? How did he get to the watchtower?

Matt - CDWA (18:57.806)
He had to get bigger and stronger, dude. He wasn't ready yet. I don't know. He was waiting for that telecast so he can say like, it begins or whatever and everyone goes nuts. Like that's what he was waiting for.

Jonathan Can't (19:12.165)
Yeah, like I just don't understand it. Like I would buy it if you if you told me, OK, yes, Tara was an infant too and had to grow to that size. OK, fine. But like where on the fucking earth did he hide to get that big and then sneak up to the watchtower undetected?

Matt - CDWA (19:26.83)
Wasn't isn't he weak to heat too when he burned up in the atmosphere like that was like Okay, did they okay? I missed that

Jonathan Can't (19:29.633)
Yes. They address that. They address that. Yeah. Well, I mean, when they when they when Damien and Jonathan crashed the watchtower, that was their plan was to kill him and it didn't.

Matt - CDWA (19:40.686)
Yeah.

I guess. He's baby star of them at that point though. I don't know.

Jonathan Can't (19:47.141)
Yeah, well, didn't he get inside the ship or was he outside?

Matt - CDWA (19:50.222)
I don't even remember, dude. I don't... you're pro...

Jonathan Can't (19:51.781)
Who doesn't DC didn't care. So why should we? It doesn't matter. It's fine I I said again, like I don't I mentioned this earlier, but we didn't get a Batman Damien origin like we did for Clark and Jonathan. That's It's really it's really a Jonathan Kent movie. It's not a Super Sons movie in my opinion I also thought it was a little weird how the selection of heroes that

That We're in the movie was extremely limited It's like star took the Justice League and the Teen Titans and Damian was like there's no one else Who can who can help us now? I'm like literally fucking anybody dude like the whole bat family is still like out there like where's batgirl the night wing and the other Robin and Ever with red hood like all those people

Matt - CDWA (20:32.878)
That's it. That's it.

Matt - CDWA (20:37.678)
There's so many people in there.

Matt - CDWA (20:44.622)
That's a great point.

Jonathan Can't (20:48.485)
What about the Titans? Where are they at? I know the Teen Titans are out of commission. We have the Titans. Where's Wally West? That Barry is taking care of some shit. Does Wally West not exist? I guess not.

Matt - CDWA (21:01.774)
You gotta watch the whole tomorrow verse to find out. Maybe they haven't been introduced yet. Is this a stand -o? That's right, it's a stand -o. Good call, it's a stand -o. no.

Jonathan Can't (21:05.765)
This is well, this isn't part of the tomorrow verse. This is standalone. So like this, like I don't understand, like they we we treat in the film like this is like the DC universe. There's tons of heroes, but really it seems like there's only the Justice League and the Teen Titans.

Matt - CDWA (21:21.166)
It was one iPad scroll. There was not like that many people.

Jonathan Can't (21:23.493)
Yeah, that would that was so I just felt that was like super lazy or like if we aim this movie at kids that we think the kids were too stupid to get it like These kids now are raised on superhero content. Like they understand that multiple superheroes exist. You don't have to You don't have to dumb it down. I don't know if that was dumbing down, but it was dumb

Matt - CDWA (21:43.478)
You

Jonathan Can't (21:46.213)
Another inconsistency for me when they go to the fortress of solitude and Jonathan throws that key in the keyhole and he goes now you got a now you got to figure out how to turn it How in the ever -loving fuck did he turn that key? He does not have the power of flight They reinforced that multiple times in the film that keyhole was so high up in the air How did he turn the key to get inside the fortress of solitude?

Matt - CDWA (21:53.966)
That's ridiculous.

Matt - CDWA (22:11.63)
That's a great criticism. That's a great critic. He couldn't even put the... He couldn't float up and put the key in there. That's a great point. Dude. He's on it.

Jonathan Can't (22:20.965)
There's more I have more plot inconsistencies everywhere. I'm taking I'm taking this children's movie to the mat. God damn it When star commands all of the the Justice League and Teen Titans all seven of them to kill the kids and Green arrow shoots that arrow at Damien and the last second Jonathan jumps in front to save Damien It's like, you know the melodrama of my god. He's not invulnerable yet. So I

Matt - CDWA (22:27.854)
Yes, I say, you're going hard.

Jonathan Can't (22:50.021)
Jonathan died like obviously that didn't happen like the whole point of that scene was to show his invulnerability kick in and then like he rolls over and like the arrow tip is Bent and he goes I'm involved rule the arrows Yeah, but that basic ass s hoodie that your dad gave you isn't why aren't your clothes ripped? You tell me that you turn invulnerable and so did your shirt doesn't make sense inconsistent

Matt - CDWA (23:16.302)
Alright.

Jonathan Can't (23:18.021)
We're not done. When Martian Manhunter turned into a dinosaur, why did that starro get just as big and scale up with the dinosaur? Are they shape -changing starros? No, they're not. That didn't make sense.

Matt - CDWA (23:36.622)
This guy. This guy!

Jonathan Can't (23:37.541)
Doesn't make sense. I got one more.

when Lois is in with Luther at that like address the TV address and it all goes sideways and Lois, you know knows that and she sends a message to Jonathan via the TV broadcast and One like you just assume that he's sitting around the TV watching this Like the last you saw him he was flying off in the batwing with Damien Like you think they're just chilling eating Cheetos watching TV mom?

Matt - CDWA (24:03.566)
It's

Matt - CDWA (24:12.686)
You can't send a brother a text message. You can't send him a text.

Jonathan Can't (24:12.933)
Come on. Yeah. But then even, even more like if that's not ridiculous enough, you're telling me Lois was just going to tell her son to get that motherfucker in front of the whole world. She got the mother out and then they come back. I'm like, what is that?

Matt - CDWA (24:24.59)
Hehehehehe

Yeah, that's too good. Yeah, yeah, they're pushing. There's some gore in this too, dude. There's some...

Jonathan Can't (24:33.157)
That's what but that's what doesn't make sense because it's like it's like the plot. The plot plays out like a kids movie. There are so many inconsistencies along the way and. Right, yeah. But then we're trying to be with them. We're trying to be like adult and violent. You got to pick a lane with some of this stuff.

Matt - CDWA (24:43.95)
Dude, it was violent on those star rows. There was like, I was like, whoa!

Matt - CDWA (24:52.27)
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Get this mother. Didn't she say like bitch or shit? She said something like I think she said like when she it was when she had the aerosol can she said something like bitch and I was like, whoa, like, I don't know.

Jonathan Can't (24:55.109)
I don't know.

Probably, I don't know.

Jonathan Can't (25:06.629)
I was I was actually starting to write down my note about how ridiculous it was that she was going to like send him a message on TV like that. And I actually had to rewind because I think she just almost said motherfucker. Did I hear that right? Like I had to back it up. I had to listen again.

Matt - CDWA (25:15.022)
Yeah, she did. She did almost do it.

Jonathan Can't (25:24.133)
And the I'd mentioned at the start that I think there are some pacing issues It really what I pacing may not be the right word, but to me it follows the exact same plot progression and pacing of Every MCU film that's ever existed

Up until the very end, when they pulled out that hokey -ass baseball fatality with the tree.

That's where it differentiated itself from the MCU. But other than that, I feel like it was very formulaic. And because of that, the pacing in those movies is very like we intro our main characters and heroes, and then we see the trials of them getting powers. Then they have a villain encounter of some kind. And then there's like a long period where we bridge to act three, where they're trying to solve the problem, fix their powers, find their powers.

Matt - CDWA (26:05.174)
Yeah.

Jonathan Can't (26:27.109)
find a tchotchke thing that they need to defeat the villain and then you get like one final battle and then the movie is over and then we give you like a joke at the end because we know all you idiots like jokes. That's the MCU formula and this one followed that pretty tightly, I think.

Matt - CDWA (26:46.094)
It was done in half the time though, so that's okay with it. It moved very briskly. That was a good thing.

Jonathan Can't (26:48.677)
They did manage to save me another hour. Yes. Yes. I agree.

Matt - CDWA (26:57.454)
Interesting. All right. Hot takes controversial.

Jonathan Can't (27:03.461)
I mean, I feel like I've I don't really have any, you know, I, but I guess my my mostly controversial opinion, which isn't really. Controversy at all, we've talked about it many, many times, but, you know, either you either have to pick. This is continuity and we're focused on connecting the stories or we're not. And DC does it everywhere where we're like, well, we are and we aren't. It's now it's in the animated stuff.

Matt - CDWA (27:29.23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Can't (27:32.773)
It's in the DCEU even. It's in the comics, especially relaunch relaunch relaunch. Yeah, it's like, you know, just just either do it or don't man.

Matt - CDWA (27:38.638)
mini -series, yep, I agree.

Matt - CDWA (27:44.718)
I don't know. What was DC's fascination with Star -O over the pandemic? I'm just curious. Because it was like this. This came out in 2022 and The Suicide Squad was 2021. We were in a big Star -O phase in that pandemic -esque era. I'm curious. I don't know what happened there. I mean, I guess because he's just the one...

Jonathan Can't (28:05.477)
We sure were.

Matt - CDWA (28:11.342)
hero that a lot of people are villain that a lot of people don't know and hasn't been used a lot maybe. I could understand too if like if this was the first Justice League movie to kind of like play off the comics like the first Justice League issue was a Star -O thing but like I'm like I don't know why we were so in love with Star -O in the early 2020s but apparently we were. And then my real hot take.

is I think that aging up Jonathan Kent and the comic books was one of the worst decisions that DC has ever made. I don't know if you know, but this Super Son books in an era where comic books don't really have a lot of buzz, people talked about this Super Son's book, the Super Son's comic book a lot. It was very popular. It was a very popular series.

In comic stores people talked about Super Sons.

Jonathan Can't (29:15.462)
Yeah, we talked about that before. I remember we talked about that before we even started this podcast, we had a conversation about it.

Matt - CDWA (29:20.494)
And it was like actually a book. Like I want to say it was like, I don't think it was, no, it wasn't a continuity, but like it was a book that like you can spin that out for younger readers and it really makes sense and it works. And do you remember how he got aged up?

Jonathan Can't (29:40.485)
I do not.

Matt - CDWA (29:40.974)
Do you remember the writer who aged him up?

Jonathan Can't (29:44.421)
I do not, but the look on your face tells me it's somebody that I already don't like.

Matt - CDWA (29:49.134)
Bendis is coming, baby. Bendis is coming. Brian, Brian, you son of a bitch. We love Brian. I got all my Brian work back here. It's Marvel work.

Jonathan Can't (29:51.109)
Brian.

You used to be the best of us.

Your dad. Well, yeah, your daredevil run is never gonna die in my heart Brian, but everything everything after you fucked up the Guardians has been dogshit in my opinion

Matt - CDWA (30:04.238)
No, no!

Matt - CDWA (30:10.51)
Yup. Yup. Brian. Brian did it. And it was so hokey. Like John... I knew it was going to be ridiculous when like John Kent went off with Jor -El of all people. Like Jor -El was back from the dead and he went... There was some black hole and he got trapped and was like tortured by Ultraman on Earth 3.

And then like he gets out of the black hole and then like all these years have passed. So he jumped from like he was age 10 and he jumped up to age 17. And like that like just obliterated the whole Super Sons dynamic because Damien was like, you know, 12, 10 or whatever. And like Jonathan 17. And it's like now it's just like awkward and weird. Like, I don't know, like 17 is like you're damn near an adult. Like, I don't know. That was.

Jonathan Can't (31:01.573)
Yeah, it would be very awkward. I mean, it would be very awkward and weird.

Matt - CDWA (31:03.918)
it'd be very awkward right like so i don't know man like that was just a really bad decision in my opinion and and an era where dc could really use some good comic book sales and like that was what they did i was like dude that is a stupid decision that you kind of can't go back from but yeah i don't know man that was my that was my main hot take i was really upset about that when that happened but overall

I mean, I enjoyed this movie. It was good to get back into the DCU animated stuff. Like I said, I really, really enjoyed those movies for the longest time and I watched them a lot. So it gives me a reason to use my HBO Max. So I was happy.

Jonathan Can't (31:48.894)
Not HBO Max anymore, it's just Max now. Another, another, and a long list of very questionable Warner Brothers decisions. HBO is literally viewed as the upper echelon of serialized TV shows. And you decided to remove that from the thing you want people to pay $15 a month to access in perpetuity. And you were like, you know what, guys?

Matt - CDWA (31:50.83)
max sorry max just straight up max

I'm sorry.

Matt - CDWA (32:01.582)
premium content.

Jonathan Can't (32:15.23)
It's too confusing to have it be called HBO Max. Let's drop the thing that people would actually pay money for. Let's call it Max, call it a day, and then be confused when it doesn't work out later.

Matt - CDWA (32:24.398)
Exactly. Isn't the Max that purple superhero from the 90s? The Max.

Jonathan Can't (32:28.99)
He is. It was an image. Yeah. Created by Sam Keefe. Big ass feet. Some big ass feet.

Matt - CDWA (32:38.542)
Alright? I don't know where you go from there.

Jonathan Can't (32:39.998)
Heheheheh

go to this. I think that we should watch more of these.

Matt - CDWA (32:48.558)
I agree dude. I -

We need to talk offline of starting point, but like, I don't know, man. Like the tomorrow verse we could start there.

Jonathan Can't (32:58.078)
Nah man, take me back. Give me the OG 2013 Flashpoint.

Matt - CDWA (33:00.558)
I... Yup, we can start there. We can start there for sure. I would love to do that.

Jonathan Can't (33:05.95)
started watching that once on a flight back from California. I never finished that movie. It's actually a funny story. You know why I couldn't finish that movie?

Matt - CDWA (33:09.39)
I think I have it.

Matt - CDWA (33:14.926)
your internet cut out. I don't know. Give it!

Jonathan Can't (33:17.31)
No, it's on a plane. I had it downloaded on my iPad. So this is one, I'm gonna open myself up to ridicule and that's okay. Because I've got, I'm not afraid of being ridiculed. I used to watch Grey's Anatomy.

Matt - CDWA (33:40.686)
Got him boys. We got him. We got his ass boys. We got him.

Jonathan Can't (33:41.392)
I used to watch a lot of Grey's Anatomy.

I'd say like the first eight to ten seasons probably I was a big I was a big watcher of that show. Yeah, I can't believe it's still going.

Matt - CDWA (33:52.43)
Everyone liked Grey's though, like, a lot. Me neither, like, me neither!

Jonathan Can't (33:59.454)
I'm literally gonna end up, I mean, I don't watch the show anymore, but like, what's, I, it's gonna go so long that the woman that plays Meredith Grey, we're actually gonna have her real funeral on the show because she is going to die in that role.

Matt - CDWA (34:01.902)
You're gonna have to watch the last season, like, just to see how ridiculous it is.

Matt - CDWA (34:11.726)
Cash those checks, baby.

Jonathan Can't (34:15.774)
Like that will be the first like not acted funeral in television history. We literally just filmed this woman's funeral That's how Meredith Grey dies in the show 30 years from now Still going. Yes Season 58 Anyway, I'm so far off track now. I used to watch Grey's Anatomy One of the guys in that show

Matt - CDWA (34:25.646)
live on ABC, the funeral of Meredith Carey. They're gonna pitch it.

Jonathan Can't (34:43.294)
did the voice of the Flash in that movie. And I, for the life of me, could not separate the two. All I could see was the actor, who I know is a doctor on Grey's Anatomy, every time Barry Allen would open his mouth to speak. It was... I couldn't do it.

Matt - CDWA (35:04.142)
I was gonna say it was that son of a bitch carav and it was. I was gonna say it before I looked it up and then I just saw his picture like son of a bitch carav.

Jonathan Can't (35:09.246)
What?

Jonathan Can't (35:15.198)
Hahaha!

So that's why I couldn't finish Flashpoint. But I can go, it's been like, you know, it's been like 10 years. I can go back to it now, no problem. But at the time, it was a very difficult thing for me to get through. I just, I gave up. I got half of the movie. I was like, I can't do this. This is too difficult.

Matt - CDWA (35:20.046)
yeah, there's no way. Yeah, that's incredible.

I hope we can do it.

Matt - CDWA (35:32.334)
That's incredible. That's incredible that that was actually him.

Jonathan Can't (35:36.542)
I love that you fucking guessed it. That's great.

Matt - CDWA (35:41.07)
yeah, we should start there. That'd be fun.

Jonathan Can't (35:43.358)
Yeah. So do we want to, you want to talk about those on episodes of the podcast? Is that something that the people want?

Matt - CDWA (35:50.83)
dude, I will have to leave it up to the people, but that's what I want. I enjoy it. This is in an era where I struggle with some Marvel and DC comics. This is where I get my outlet through the movies, primarily animation. X -Men 97 is rocking on all cylinders. I mean, I'm glad Marvel, that was my one thing. Like Marvel never really had consistently good animation.

Jonathan Can't (35:55.326)
People, let us know.

Jonathan Can't (36:06.59)
Dude, I wish...

Jonathan Can't (36:19.454)
Exactly.

Matt - CDWA (36:19.758)
And like there were some, I remember like there was some, an X -Men, there's a Wolverine in the X -Men, that was a cartoon, that was actually pretty good, but like it was never like this level. That was like, Marvel had the live action movies that were awesome, and this is where I went for my DC entertainment.

Jonathan Can't (36:28.382)
I never watched it.

Jonathan Can't (36:37.182)
There's some good Spider -Man animated shows. There's some good Spider -Man stuff. The Fox one from back in the day, the 90s and like there's been some other stuff that was decent.

Matt - CDWA (36:40.494)
Okay, yeah.

yeah, that stuff. But like, I'm talking like the 2000s when Marvel was really rocking, I'm like, why isn't the animation rocking with it? Yeah.

Jonathan Can't (36:50.59)
Yeah, I know. They did a handful of movies. They did a handful of movies. They were okay, but they just never put enough effort into it. Now all we get is like, scenes of what if and that stupid group thing.

Matt - CDWA (37:01.166)
Yeah, but yeah, we can we can do some animation, bro

Jonathan Can't (37:03.39)
Dumb. Don't want it. I mean, I'll be honest. I don't care if the people want it. If we want to do it, we're going to make episodes about it. And like, you'll either listen to the podcast or you won't. And if you don't, that's okay. We're going to keep doing it. I don't care. What's it called again? I forget the name of it. We're going to kick off the... Now there's a name for that 16 part universe. The DC animated movie universe. Sad I couldn't remember that.

Matt - CDWA (37:09.226)
I definitely want to do it.

Matt - CDWA (37:15.534)
I love it. I love it.

Matt - CDWA (37:20.398)
The Justice League one? The Flashpoint Paradox, the Flashpoint Paradox.

sweet.

Jonathan Can't (37:31.102)
which is literally just a description of what it is. It's nothing interesting or unique. All right, well, we're gonna do that. We're gonna work that into the podcast going forward.

Matt - CDWA (37:39.438)
my gosh, we need to, there's some good ones before that too. But yeah, we should kick that off. That's fine. There are some really good ones before that. Yeah, we'll talk. We'll talk. We'll talk. We'll talk.

Jonathan Can't (37:45.502)
We can talk we can talk we can talk we can talk But instead of everyone having to suffer through us talking about it now, let's just wrap this thing up I again I talked a lot of shit. The movie was still fun. It was a good watch. I don't feel like I wasted my time I like talking to you about this kind of stuff, you know when I'm riled up and complaining about it It's still a good time. So fuck it. Whatever I'm glad. All right. We'll be back in two weeks ish. There might be a slight delay going forward

Matt - CDWA (38:03.97)
Me as well.

Jonathan Can't (38:13.054)
I'm out of town for work next week and then a week after that my girlfriend and I bought a house and we're gonna be moving. So I'll get the next boys episode out as soon as I can. It might not be in two weeks, but it'll happen eventually. It might be the first week of June. We'll see what happens. So bear with us. If we go off schedule a little bit, that's why. But we'll be back. Eric will be with us. We'll do some other stuff. Matt and I here and there. We hope you like it.

If you don't, that's okay. We're going to keep doing it. until next time. my name is Dave. Take care of yourselves, everybody. Bye bye.

Matt - CDWA (38:46.702)
And I'm Matt.

Peace.