77: Invincible Part 12 (FINAL) + Series Retrospective!

Summary

Dave and Matt close out their year-long celebration of Invincible by discussing volumes 24 and 25. They reflect on the most and least likable characters in the series, and explore the themes of dictatorship vs democracy and the importance of family and friends. The conversation delves into favorite moments and arcs in the series, highlighting the Viltrumite War and the Invincible War as standout storylines. The hosts share their personal takeaways from the series and reflect on the impact of Invincible as a superhero comic. They conclude with a wrap-up and announce their next read, The Boys.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Updates

01:19 Closing out the Year-Long Celebration of Invincible

03:11 Recap of Volumes 24 and 25

11:36 The Good, The Bad, The Hot Takes

37:12 Series Retrospective

55:10 Final Thoughts

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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Transcript

Dave (00:01.62)
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes, a podcast about comic books and comic book related things. It's been a little bit. We haven't we haven't done one of these in a little bit.

Matt (00:12.942)
It's been a while. It has been a long time, man. It's actually is. Yes, it is. You're welcome. New year, new me. New year, same me, I guess. Nothing changed.

Dave (00:14.74)
That's stained. Was you singing stained?

Terrible. It's terrible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. New year knew us though. So I'm gonna usually I do this at the end of the podcast. I'm gonna lead it off. So with me as always, my esteemed co -host and best friend, Matt, you can find Matt and I on Twitter if you'd like to follow us there. I'm also on threads. So I don't really use threads, but that's okay. If people follow me, I might. But if you wanna follow us, you can find us there. We also will start posting this year on TikTok.

Matt (00:31.406)
Absolutely.

Matt (00:39.35)
Hello.

Dave (00:55.07)
and YouTube, so I will link those things in the episode description as well. And of course, if you can share the podcast with a friend, family member, co -worker, whatever, the growth helps us and makes sure that we keep doing this podcast. So greatly appreciate that. We just had like our best month ever in December. I don't really talk about that kind of stuff, but December was a pretty good month for the podcast. So if...

Matt (01:14.638)
That's awesome.

Dave (01:20.062)
Many of you listening to this were a part of that, shared the podcast, helped us grow a little bit. Thank you, we appreciate it.

Matt (01:26.382)
Appreciate you. Oh man.

Dave (01:28.318)
All that being said, a bit of a somber tone today because we're closing out our year long celebration of Invincible. It's Invincible's 20th anniversary. So Matt and I reread all of Invincible. We've been talking about it once a month since last January. If you missed that, where have you been? First of all, what have you been doing? Welcome. If this is your first time, weird place to start. I'd recommend maybe going back to the first Invincible episode. Start there.

work your way up. But if not, hey, it's your life. I don't control you. Do whatever you want to do.

If you forgot how these episodes go, I'll recap what we read. It's usually just high level story beats. This is going to be like even more high level since it's the very last one. I don't want to talk about everything that happened in the last two volumes. So we're going to keep it kind of brief there. We'll talk about things we liked, things we didn't, any hot takes that we may have. And we're doing something a little different today.

Matt (02:18.318)
Yeah.

Dave (02:33.694)
What are we doing, Matt?

Matt (02:36.142)
I think we're going to do like a retrospective of our whole journey here. I think it would be good to reflect on a series that kind of brought us together a lot. And here are our thoughts, here are our reflections from over a year. So always a good, maybe this is a new year's resolution that I don't really do, but you know, it's a new year. Let's do some reflections though.

Dave (02:51.376)
Exactly.

Yeah.

Dave (02:58.302)
I don't know why you said I think because this like you wrote all of the questions that were answering in that retrospect. You know exactly what it is. But that's OK. That's OK. You're being modest. I appreciate that. I can respect it.

Matt (03:02.67)
Yeah, that's true, that's true.

Matt (03:11.566)
I do what I can, so...

Dave (03:13.598)
Alright, enough of the preamble. Let's get into the recap. Volumes 24 and 25 of Invincible. Here we go. Actually, before I do that, maybe I should remind everyone where we left off. Mark and Eve were hiding out on a planet. And, I don't know, wherever they were. I don't think we know the name of that planet. If we did, I forgot. And Oliver was working with Thrag. And...

Matt (03:16.238)
Yeah.

Dave (03:42.526)
told Thrag where Mark, Eve, and Tara were. The last volume ends with a big fight on that planet. Mark kills one of the lieutenants in the new Vilcrumite army. His name was Onon, who was the brother of the other lieutenant in that army. Her name was Ursel. Thrag kills Oliver. Very, very sad. And then Mark and Eve vow that they need to go back to Teleskria, to civilization.

and finish this thing once and for all. That's where we left things. Picking up in volume 24, we start with Oliver's funeral. It was too late. Eve was not able to bring him back like she has brought her and Mark back many times in the past. Mark and Eve also work out some stuff, some things that have been lingering that they hadn't really addressed, and they end up getting married.

Matt (04:32.596)
Yeah they do.

Dave (04:38.31)
We also learned that Alan is kind of a piece of shit. I'm sure we'll talk about that later. I won't get into it here. Mark also gets Nolan on board with hunting down Thrag. So now we've got Mark, Alan, Nolan, Eve, Space Racer, the Telestegrate Army and the Coalition of Planets. They're all on point. We're going to go hunt down Thrag and end this mother effort. And Mark and Eve have a plan. And that plan is to attack Thrag.

and his army of new villager mites at their home base and it works. They find out where they're sort of base camping. It's an absolutely brutal fight. And the coalition of planet forces actually lose to Thrag on purpose because they want to bait him into following them. And they're taking Thrag to Earth. On their way there.

Nolan asks all of the Viltrimites that are living on Earth that now have families and children. If they are willing to help fight Thrag and his new Viltrimite army, he says that he doesn't expect them to, but if they choose to do so, he would welcome their help. And by and large, they all choose to show up and show out for Nolan and Mark and the Coalition of Planets. It's at this point where everyone sort of arrives in Earth's orbit. Thrag brings out a different...

force of new Viltrimites. These are older than the cadets that they were fighting at their home base. These are older. They're led by Ursel. And it's at this point that Robot, I don't know if he attacks all of the Viltrimites partners on Earth, but he definitely invades their homes and their spaces. And he takes all of their children, who he knows are Viltrimites, and puts them in a safe place to wait at the battle. Or so we think.

Volume 24 ends with a massive fight in space. Tons of stuff happens during this fight. I'm not going to get into all of it. Nolan does take on Thrag, and in that fight is seemingly killed when Thrag punches a hole through his chest. Volume 25 starts with Rex showing up in space to help with the fight. It's in Earth's best interests for Rex to get involved, so he does so.

Dave (07:00.954)
Eve also goes out to retrieve Nolan's body as he is still barely alive. Eve is attacked. Anissa actually saves her and is wounded severely, well, fatally, while trying to help Eve. And it's at this point where Anissa tells Eve about Marky, who we will learn more of later. Mark ends up killing Thrag.

in one of the most insane superhero fights you will ever see and Alan scoops up Mark's body and takes him back to the ship. At this point, Mark looks like a human -sized piece of viltrumite jerky in the fetal position. I couldn't think of a better way to put that. I don't know. That's... Yeah, it's... I'll take the white meat.

Matt (07:46.762)
Barbecue chicken. Barbecue chicken on there. Yeah.

Dave (07:52.668)
um allen then goes to ursul's cell um because she has uh i guess give it up they say hey we don't want to fight anymore like they see nolan's true nature or not nolan sorry thragg's true nature and ursul says yeah not not doing it i'm out we we we give up um alan says hey i'd like to heal the divide between our people

And she literally has no concept of what that means. She has no idea what the word forgiveness means. She was basically bred to be a warrior and nothing more. And there's actually like a really sad scene between Thrag and Ursula I didn't really talk about, but yeah, it's in there if you want to go read it. More sadness, Nolan.

Matt (08:31.274)
Yeah.

Dave (08:42.876)
does succumb to his injuries. Mark is in the room when he passes. And his dying wish is that Mark takes control of the Viltrumite Empire in his place since he is the heir to the throne. He has the blood of Argel in his veins as well. They get to Earth because they were not, I guess they weren't really in the orbit of Earth earlier in that fight because they arrive in Earth's orbit and they arrive to find

an army of Rex's robots just waiting for them in space. And there's a huge fight. I won't get into the details of the fight. I will just say that Rex took all those Viltrumite children, not just to be nice, but as a bargaining chip because he knew that Mark would take over the Viltrumite Empire if Nolan died. And he doesn't trust Mark because of everything that Mark has tried to do to overthrow Rex.

in the past. They don't really see eye to eye anymore. Rex was using the children against Mark. Basically, he told the true blood viltrumites that, yeah, either you help me or I'm going to kill all your kids. So, you know, make a decision. They figure it out. They best Rex and his army. They find the kids. Mark actually kills Rex, saves his brain.

puts it in a glass tube and puts immortal in charge of earth in conjunction working with Rex's brain, which is everyone's safest bet as far as they can all tell and see. And then after that, Mark meets his son, Marky. It's at this point Mark is full fledged emperor of the Viltrum Empire. They're gonna work the new Viltrumites into the society and

Mark decides the best thing for everyone is to take the Viltrumites off planet for good and go into the galaxy and see what happens next. And this is husband doesn't want to go. He also doesn't want the kids to go. So Mark agrees that it would be best they can stay. He wants Marky to have the life that he had growing up on earth. And he thinks it'll be good for Marky to.

Dave (11:05.5)
to stay there and sort of have the same kind of childhood Mark had. It's at this point where the comic shifts forward in time multiple times and the volume and the comic ends with us getting to see what happens with Mark, his family, the Empire, most of our supporting cast. I'm not gonna get into all the details of that. I know we'll talk about some of those in the next section of the podcast, but for the recap, I just don't wanna touch it.

So a bit of a shorter recap. So yeah, that's how we end the comic. At this point, I think we're moving on. Let's move on to the good. What did we like about volumes 24 and 25?

Matt (11:52.256)
So I want to keep my thoughts relatively brief. I want to keep them brief because I'm really curious to hear what you have to say as our lead invincible scholar here. So the things I liked. Dude, there are some epic, epic battles that you talked about in this. Some of the best comic book art you're going to see. I know I always give props to Ryan Oddly, but you have to give props to Mark Morales as Inker.

Dave (12:01.756)
Hehehehe

Matt (12:21.856)
Nathan Fairburn, the colorist, the colors like in this series that like, you know, I haven't really talked about the colorist and the whole team and the anchor as well too. All that stuff really does matter. And especially in these Robert Kirkman series lettering to like these last panel, last page reveals like where they do something unique or interesting with the lettering. Like this whole creative team, like I know I've given Otley a lot of props, but everyone deserves some props on this as well too.

Um, and Cory Walker as well too, even though he's not necessarily my favorite. Um, they all deserve a round of applause. It sure did. No, I really did. Uh, but I, no, it's, it's going to continue, but like that whole team, um, that, that outer space battle and that battle you're talking about with the Thrag and Mark battle. I'm not going to go into it, but they battle in the sun. Uh, epic dude, just, just epic stuff going on. Uh, I really, really liked that.

Dave (12:57.18)
That hurt to say, didn't it? You didn't like saying that. There's been so much Cory Walker slander from you in this.

I'm sorry.

Matt (13:21.888)
Um, this pains me to say, but finality, I've been like really, I also just recently read like the Zdarsky Daredevil run. Like I've, I have like 10 issues to read and I've kind of like put it off and put it off. There's something special about like a finality in a series, especially something like this.

Dave (13:26.012)
Mmm.

Matt (13:49.824)
Robert Kirkman is a master writer. I mean, I'm assuming he has a plan or a vision. I mean, I know like in Walking Dead, he kind of deviated off a little bit, but he ultimately knew where the story was going to end. And there is something really powerful in knowing where a story is going to end. That's also why I'm really looking forward to Saga. When it ends at some point, like they know how many issues they're going to do. This isn't just like an ongoing thing that's going to go on forever and ever and ever.

Dave (14:14.778)
108.

Matt (14:19.104)
And I know we really wish we had series that go on forever and ever, but the more I read, like these stories that have a finality or some of the best, cause they're not just these ongoing narratives. So I really loved that this comic spanned like Mark's, you know, teenage years up to him being a father. I'm going to talk about that a little bit later. This is what Dave brings me on for to talk about some of this father stuff, but.

Dave (14:47.036)
Heheheheheheh

Matt (14:49.056)
I love it that it was like his, we didn't see him as a baby, but pretty much like his youth all the way up to him being a father, which I thought was really special as well too. There's an old professional wrestling phrase of how can I miss you if you won't go away? Meaning if you're always on TV, like when the wrestler comes back or the boxer or the fighter, it's a huge pop when that person comes back, right? Like if it's just always there, you don't really appreciate it. And that's what I really learned this time reading this series.

Um, and ultimately the last thing I was just going to say, like, they really stuck the landing. Like there's not a lot of series that stick the landing. I've read, I've talked to, I've rambled on about finality and I'm still rambling on. I've definitely read some series where they didn't stick the landing at all. Like I don't, I didn't, I didn't feel that way about the series. I'm like, well, that was a, you know, popcorn fart. That was no good. Like, but the two Robert Kirkman series that I kind of saw through to the end.

Dave (15:37.18)
you

Matt (15:47.648)
He stuck the landing in my opinion. The endings were kind of similar, but the landings were stuck. Uh, and I think that's a really hard thing to do. There were a lot of callbacks. It to the series to earlier parts of the series. And I really love that for like the fans that were really there all the way from the beginning. I think there's definitely some things that you can appreciate. Um, the panel structure.

the origin that we, I think that was the third time we've seen the origin. Like Nolan, the origin of like the Viltrumites and all that and how it was done like differently every time it was Nolan telling the BS story, Nolan telling the real story and then Mark telling the story to Marky. Like I love that. Like I just love that stuff like that. It is really enjoyable. So I love the line of just,

one of the most important lines in the series. And I'm not going to go into like how we kind of talked about, we don't really want to go into everything that happened in the end, but I will say that, that final line of like in 500 years, where will we be? And just like cut to black loved it. Thought it was perfect.

That's it. That's all my good, sorry.

Dave (17:03.164)
That's okay. No, you're good. You're good. I thought you'd have poor actually. But we're gonna talk about the whole series. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead.

Matt (17:08.384)
I do, I do have one more actually. Um, and this, this was, I kind of like, this is my optional one to talk about, but that my last one is just like the power of friendship and love. That's the one thing I learned from this series. And I know this is like a sappy concept that I don't care. I I'm very secure and who I am as a person. I love just friendship. I love friendship, strong friendship, strong bonds.

Dave (17:36.804)
Yeah man, me too. Me too.

Matt (17:38.048)
I know you appreciate it, but ultimately, Mark couldn't have got to where he got in this series, including all these battles, including Thragg, including all this stuff, without family and friends. Mark is one of the most powerful beings in the universe, but he still couldn't do it alone. He needed people. I think I'm going to talk about it probably later, and I'm just going to... No, this is when I was going talk about it. As powerful as he is, Mark is always like...

And I can just speak to this is from my self -amount experience, I guess, as a guy and being masculine or whatever. It's just like, sometimes we get caught in this whole like headstrong thing that we have to do everything ourselves. And this series, I loved it how it actually like, Eve has been there with him so long, but -

We finally got the resolution because he let Eve in and stopped protecting her. When Eve at the end of that first like, trade or, you said it was the end of the previous trade or, I know it was the end of the first issue. When she's just like, it was like issue 133, when she like recruited the line, like being a hero is bullshit. Like, let's go get this motherfucker. Like we got to end this. That's what I'm like, yeah, dude, like this is you should have did a long time ago.

Dave (18:34.716)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (18:56.832)
You've been, you've been trying to protect everybody this whole time. Like she's your ride or die, man. Like you got it. You can't do this on your own. Like you think you can do everything on your own. And I feel like, I mean, I didn't go through like statistically everything that happened, but half the time, Mark just flies off half cocked when if he just listened to Eve, like it would have been perfectly fine. So it's like, they're just a perfect balance to each other. And I just like, like that's where he finally got to the end of the series. And I think that just comes with just.

in real life with maturity, because I've definitely been that way. And I'm like, you know what? I can't do all this by myself. Like, I need, you know, you need other people. You need family, friends. You shouldn't just make kind of decisions in a vacuum. So yeah, that's what, that was my last one.

Dave (19:40.476)
I mean, I've said it before, but Mark and Eve are the Peter and Mary Jane that I'm never gonna get, so.

Matt (19:48.448)
Yeah, so enjoy it. Enjoy it.

Dave (19:51.548)
Love it. Love it. So the good that I have is a lot more focused to volumes 24 and 25. Yours was, you kind of went in like the whole series. This man over here, he's writing a love letter to Invincible when we're talking about two volumes, but that's okay.

Matt (20:01.92)
Yeah, that's more content. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt (20:11.296)
So that cuts to the end.

Dave (20:12.732)
I Was waiting that's what I paused for I paused for you to sit make some sort of snarky remark about me and what I said It's fair. I knew what I was doing So after I didn't I didn't specifically call it out in the recap but at Oliver's funeral Mark and Alan get into a fight That's what happens before like he and Eve work out their issues

Matt (20:19.616)
us.

Matt (20:36.608)
Yeah they do.

Dave (20:42.428)
She's pissed because he's fighting Alan. And at the end of that, Alan, Alan leaves after Eve intervenes. He's back on the ground and Tara punches him in his big ass eye. And I love it. I thought that was hilarious. That was one of my favorite parts of the volume 24. And then right after that, Mark and Eve getting married, like long time coming, love that they finally got married. I love the whole concept that Eve with the rings. She was like, we're leaving him here. So we have something to come back to.

Matt (20:53.984)
You

Matt (21:12.096)
Yeah.

Dave (21:12.604)
I just love everything about the marketing relationship. Another good thing, this won't sound as good, but it's while Debbie and Haluma are back on Telescrio while the Kalishna plants everybody are going to fight Thrag, and it's the first fight when they're at Thrag's army's home base and...

Tara and Hiluma are crying over Oliver's death. And the last panel in that sequence is Tara saying, I hope no one ever dies again. Then you turn the page and the first panel is some new Viltrumite kid's heads exploding, brains flying out on Mark. The juxtaposition of those two panels back to back after a page turn, it's like the stuff that Kirkman loves to do.

Matt (21:56.48)
you

Dave (22:09.852)
It's one of his kind of trademarks of his writing style, that kind of like really stark difference, but also it's like a tip of the cap and a little bit, you know, cheeky. I just love that kind of stuff. That was a great example of it. And of course, so much Ottley Gore in these two volumes, like, absolutely incredible art. You've said it for the whole comic. Yeah, I'm going to say it again. We say it every month we talk about it. We say how great the art is. Yeah, it still is great. No surprise.

Matt (22:24.)
That's pretty funny.

Matt (22:40.448)
There's a lot of the old filter mite salute going in this. Sharp handed through the chest. There's a lot of that going on.

Dave (22:41.396)
Yes, yes, but also like the the new Viltrumite cadets that first fight Yeah, they aren't fighting. They're just though. They're kamikaze pilots, man. They're just Exploding their bodies on people crazy stuff More Tara, I love Tara man. I love Tara when

Matt (22:52.896)
Dude just throwing themselves like just throwing a cr yeah that's - yeah it was insane.

Matt (23:01.856)
Blood and guts everywhere.

Dave (23:10.844)
they find all the the Viltrumite kids when they're fighting Rex on earth and um

Tara has to stay with everyone, like all the families. And Britt says, hey, like my son's going to be here too. And if a kid's like, oh, you could drop a tank on my head and I won't feel a thing. And then Tara just fucking punches him across the room. Love it. Love it. She's definitely Mark's kid. Speaking of children, Battle Beast has a daughter.

Matt (23:28.224)
Yeah.

Matt (23:34.56)
Yeah.

Matt (23:46.848)
You gotta do that. I was gonna send you so many Battle Beast things, like this statue, this statue they erected of him on the planet. I was like, is this you? Did you make this?

Dave (23:49.116)
Let's fucking go, baby.

Yep.

Dave (23:59.066)
Hell yeah. And then my last good, and again, I try to keep the good sort of simple and contained because I know we're going to talk serious retrospective stuff. That'll take longer, but you already said it, but that fight between Mark and Thrag on the surface of the sun. Dude, like 10 out of 10 creativity, 10 out of 10 art. And at one point Mark's like transmission device or whatever is broken.

Matt (24:14.624)
Yeah.

Dave (24:29.156)
And Thrag can no longer hear what Mark is saying. But Mark continues to talk. He has this internal monologue that lasts for the back half of that fight. It's like a top 10 all time comic book superhero speech. That shit was incredible. Give me chills when I'm reading it, man. So good. So, so good.

Matt (24:53.632)
Is this the like, this is why you'll lose? Cause you're like by your dude, this is giving me Final Fantasy 16 vibes a lot. It really did like that. Yeah. Oh man.

Dave (24:55.804)
Yes. Yes.

Dave (25:01.276)
Heheheheh

Dave (25:06.556)
So let's move into the bad. And again, mine are kind of short, but.

Matt (25:10.496)
bruh

Matt (25:14.1)
I don't even know if I have any, if I'm being honest. I mean, honestly, I was going to put Cory Walker's stuff, but honestly, it wasn't like, it was like the, when they did the fast forward. I just vaguely remember the first time I read this, that there was a lot more Cory Walker and there really wasn't. Like there wasn't at all. It was all oddly. I don't know what I thought going into this, but I was like, oh no, this is fine. Like it.

Dave (25:16.412)
Okay, that's fair.

Matt (25:42.304)
It makes sense. He brings in Cory Walker for some of the slower moments when you don't need the big bombastic fight scenes, but...

Dave (25:50.748)
Well, some of the stuff some of the stuff Cory did was because the comic was painfully behind schedule. Yeah, and like somebody had to do the damn art.

Matt (25:54.592)
And you said it was behind schedule. Yeah.

Yeah, true. I mean, I don't I honestly really didn't even have anything except outside of that. Let's yeah, I put my stuff for the other stuff because I knew that was going to take some time.

Dave (26:04.22)
All right, I got four bad things to be honest. So yeah, no worries. So Alan, Alan leaked where Mark and Terra were at. That was Alan, not Oliver. That was Alan. Because he knew that doing that meant Thrag would test Oliver.

Matt (26:14.078)
Mmm.

Matt (26:19.656)
Yeah it is.

Dave (26:31.418)
Alan's kind of a bitch.

And Mark agrees, because that friendship is never repaired.

Matt (26:38.846)
No, yeah, nope.

Dave (26:41.244)
Can't get somebody's brother killed. That's a friendship breaker. You can have a professional relationship after that, apparently. Not friends. Rex slash robot doing the right thing that he's just so hard to like. And even when he was doing the right thing, he still wasn't doing the right thing. Dude sucks. Yeah. The next thing, this one is just a personal thing for me that...

Matt (26:44.116)
Yeah, can't do that.

Matt (26:56.192)
Yeah.

Yeah, there's always an ulterior motive.

Dave (27:08.508)
I don't know if this was intentional from Kirkman. I don't know if anyone else agrees with me. But during that last that that wrap up of the series, like when they started to skip ahead in time, Kirkman sowed so many seeds for continuing the series later and then just never did it. It kills me. It absolutely kills me. There's I would have read a Tara comic.

for 144 issues just like I did invincible.

Dave (27:43.624)
Rob, what are we doing? What are we doing? Rob, please.

Matt (27:45.248)
video. What's going on?

Dave (27:51.772)
I wanna give you money.

Matt (27:53.696)
Yeah? Yeah?

Dave (27:54.972)
I know you're busy being a Hollywood guy, but please.

Dave (28:01.948)
Part of me would like to think that he's been working on it and he's been prewriting it so it doesn't release so far behind. But I know that's not true. I know that's not true. My last bad thing was, Comixology got a view, it was terrible for this. It was really, really bad. It was chopping off dialogue and skipping panels. It struck again, man.

Matt (28:11.36)
He's got all 144 issues written already. Yeah.

Matt (28:25.024)
I was okay with it. Okay.

Matt (28:31.228)
It's true. Not even against the comic.

Dave (28:34.908)
No, no, just I just I like take jabs at Amazon and Comixology and every chance I get to I will take. Yeah, that was it for my bad. So let's move it on to hot takes for volumes 24 and 25, of which I have two. They're not really hot takes, but. Yep.

Matt (28:41.428)
understandable.

Matt (28:51.656)
I have three, but two real ones. So my first hot take, you already said it. I think it's time to bring the series back. I'm ready for some Tara, Markey, and Ursul stories. Like the next generation, let's do it. Let's get it done. Yeah, I think now is time. It's like, was it the 20 year anniversary or something like that? Let's get it done. Let's get it done, Rob. All right. My first hot take.

My first hot take. That was my first, I was like, that's not whatever. My first hot take.

Dave (29:26.876)
Okay.

Matt (29:28.834)
Let's talk about Anissa. Do you remember? Did you remember that you remember? He's good. My man turned into Stephen A Smith. He had to correct his name. Let's go. Anissa. The Anissa redemption arc is complete. I know you said she's a horrible person and she did horrible deeds, but, but there's some redemption there. I think.

She saved Eve. Dave is not on board. Not on board. In issue 137, she's seen the error of her ways. She's scared of that person she was before. She's been bred and indoctrinated her whole life that they're supposed to breed with their strongest mate. That's what she's been trained, man. You have no sympathy for this character whatsoever.

Dave (30:23.208)
I got a hot take I just thought of on the spot. That entire sequence of her talking about how she's afraid of the old her and she's so happy she's not that person anymore. That was just Kirkman trying to manipulate me and I'm feeling sorry for this awful piece of trash. Not gonna work. Sorry.

Matt (30:25.808)
What's that?

Matt (30:29.914)
Yeah.

Matt (30:36.114)
I got to have the guide of view. I couldn't see it with the guy that I didn't get the stages. They didn't come through. Busta got cut off. I don't know. Those panels got skipped. I loved her coming in saving Eve and then Eve saving her. I just, you know, I know you thought, I know you thought to this, you're reading it. You thought to yourself like, damn it, Matt was right. And he's going to bring it up. Come on.

Dave (30:45.28)
Skip that panel.

Dave (30:57.)
You know what man?

Dave (31:04.008)
I knew you were going to bring it up, but you're not right.

Matt (31:05.106)
That was right.

Dave (31:09.256)
No, no. Sorry, but just because the rapist did something nice out of a sense of guilt doesn't make her a good person.

Matt (31:10.642)
All right.

Matt (31:18.93)
Alright, alright. My second hot take. I don't know if this is... well...

This is a hot take to me on reading this again for the second time. I think Nolan is the second most important person in this series, to be honest. And that might be through my father lens. That's through my father lens of, you know, sons learning through their fathers, the conversation that Mark has with Tara about like fathers and parents and like, they're all, you know, you don't appreciate them and then they're gone. And then they're like the specter, you know, behind you.

Dave (31:29.128)
Okay.

Matt (31:57.138)
Like I've, I think about that like a lot with my dad. Like my dad's really been in my life and has benefited a lot of people, like a lot, a lot, a lot of people, my father has had an impact. So like one day I'm going to have to, you know, that's going to be something I'm going to have to deal with, you know? I'm like, that really hit me. Reading that line.

of just like, you know, people you've lost, grandparents, whatever, it doesn't even have to be a father, just close people, friends, you know, you kind of take them for granted and then they're gone. That like really resonated with me. And it's just like, I don't know, Mark, you know, seeing him in the full like, Viltrumite regalia and like, he didn't want to end up here. And it's kind of like me, like, I didn't think I was going to end up in higher education, but I'm in higher education.

It honestly reminded me of those progressive commercials, like where you turn into your parents. Like I was like, Mark is literally turned into Nolan. Like that's a better version. That's what the, that's what the, the goal of the parent ultimately should want to do, you know, is like have the next generation have a little bit easier to be set up better than you are. But like that theme really hit home with me. And I love like Eve. I think like Eve obviously is like a really important character, but like, I don't know Nolan.

Dave (32:52.68)
Hehehehe.

All right.

Matt (33:18.77)
was the first time around to me he was kind of like a secondary character but I don't know that this this time around it really hit me like how important he he was uh to the series and him and

Dave (33:32.104)
I knew when I read that. I knew when I read that. I thought of you first when he was sitting over Tara while she was asleep saying all that. I knew that that was going to resonate with you. I expected you to bring it up somewhere. The context that you brought it up is a surprise though. I didn't think it would come up in the hot takes that Nolan is a more important character than we initially thought. I assumed it would come in the good section.

Matt (33:36.45)
Yeah.

Matt (33:45.762)
Yeah.

Matt (33:50.86)
In what regard?

Matt (33:56.034)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, no, no. Yeah. Well, I probably should have switched those. Because that actually pertained to the first volumes, like you were saying.

Dave (34:06.664)
That's dumb, you know

Yeah, but, but no, no, because you're hot take and you back up your hot take with a pretty sound explanation for why you think it's a hot take. I think you put it in the right spot. Whatever, whatever is your truth, man. You speak your truth. I will too. I'm here for it.

Matt (34:23.586)
Appreciate it. Appreciate it, man. I'll take 50 % on my hot takes. I'll lose the Anissa argument. I'll take the Nolan one. It's more important to me anyway. So that was all my hot take. Yeah, that was all my hot take. So.

Dave (34:28.744)
All right.

All right. Mine aren't even honestly, man, mine aren't even hot takes. They're just sort of interesting observations, if I'm being honest. One is about Mark taking over the Viltrumites for Nolan. The conversation that he has with Eve about doing it is almost the exact opposite of what happened between Rex and Amanda in the Flaxen dimension and then when they came back.

Matt (34:41.666)
You're right.

Matt (34:48.96)
Yeah.

Dave (35:05.868)
Mark is a reluctant ruler who wants to do right, doesn't always know how, and Rex believes he is right 100 % of the time and takes power by force. They're opposing forces for almost the entire second half of the series. I just thought it was an interesting comparison. Not a hot take, though. It's just an interesting observation. And then my other one.

Matt (35:26.082)
Yeah, they are.

Dave (35:35.944)
You got to, this is a throwback. So you got to think way back to the start of volume 11. That trade started that with that issue, Mark and Eva on a date. And then these two dudes show up that they're, they're twins and they go, Hey, we need your help. And then they take, uh, Mark to the future. The time travel story. One of my favorite, like one -off stories in the comic actually, but where they take him.

Matt (35:55.426)
Yeah.

Dave (36:05.096)
this this future that they take him to immortal is in charge of earth and everything is awful immortal is like insane like he couldn't handle the burden mark never came back after putting him in charge you remember all that great because mark sure as shit did not because he did exactly that by putting immortal in charge of the earth and then left forever he didn't leave forever he did come back to visit mark and stuff but still i thought that was

Matt (36:23.094)
Yep. Yep.

You

Dave (36:34.568)
An interesting thing to like, we really are that like, I don't know what the divergent timeline event is there. But that was a decision point where one possible future led to a pretty terrible place.

Matt (36:46.626)
Maybe that's why Rex is there to check him and give him counsel though.

Dave (36:49.288)
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that could be it.

Matt (36:52.226)
That's why Rex was installed, because Mark was like, this dude's gonna go bat shit insane by himself and become an awful ruler. Yeah.

Dave (36:59.176)
That's a really good point, Matt. It's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. That makes sense though. Makes sense. And I know Kirkman doesn't do anything by accident. He's pretty calculated with this type of stuff and he loves the callback. So I'm sure you're right.

Matt (37:06.018)
Yeah.

Matt (37:09.94)
Yeah.

Matt (37:17.218)
We'll take it. We'll take it as that. So yeah, sure.

Dave (37:19.048)
So we've talked good, bad, hot, interesting takes. The last thing we can do now, the way we'll close out our year long celebration of Invincible, is do a little series retrospective. And it's just a few, we got a few things, some of our favorite things, key moments. You thought of these, I'll let you kick it off.

Matt (37:48.738)
So the first one I had was most likeable character. Not like my favorite character, how I said like, hey, no one's like really impactful for me this read, but like your most likeable character. For me, I mean, this is relatively easy. The most likeable character I think in my opinion is Eve. I think Eve is like super likeable. If we all had a partner that was supportive like Eve, like this world would be a much better place.

Dave (38:00.008)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (38:18.594)
Super understanding is tough on Mark when he needs to hear it. Um, is a strong character, but always like is, is very loyal. Like there was only like one time where I was questioning like, Hey, is she really gonna like break up with this dude? Because like, he's just like out of control, but she always like kind of corrects and gets him back on the right path and resets him. Uh, unwavering support.

If honestly he listened to her half the time, like this series would probably be 75 issues or the angstrom Levi arc, the reboot arc. There's so many times where he should just listen, but I mean, it is what it is. And ultimately, like when she, at the end of the day, when she's by his side, like he truly is unstoppable. And honestly, she probably should have been on the front lines fighting cause she just can die and regenerate anyway. So like, he probably should, she should have been the first person out, but yeah, Eva's awesome.

Dave (39:08.936)
You

Dave (39:15.592)
Yeah, same. I also picked Eve. Easy, easy decision, man. She's clearly the most likable character. And I agree with everything that you said about her too. So I will speak about my honorable mention because I had an honorable mention for this. But my honorable mention would be Battle Beast for most likable character.

Matt (39:18.388)
She'll dance! Lay up! Yeah, I think she like runs away with it.

Matt (39:30.242)
Okay. All right.

Matt (39:36.554)
He's a great character.

Dave (39:38.632)
He is uncomplicated. He wants one thing to die in battle. And until that happens, he's going to go find the baddest motherfucker wherever he can find him, challenge him to a fight and beat that ass. How do you not like that? How do you not like that?

Matt (39:52.706)
You

Such a like 80s or 90s action movie character just like straightforward. Just ad -beaten ass. Cool design. Cool design. Like very cool. Yeah. I don't know.

Dave (39:59.976)
Yeah, dude, he's the best. Super likable. Super likable. Yeah.

Yeah, he like finds he finds a mate like near the end and she's like just as into that that whole Yeah, yeah. They have like really rough sex where they draw blood like they're perfect match like my man's likable. He's pulling he's pulling baddies.

Matt (40:15.33)
Yeah, blood drunk and she's just like, yeah, she's just killing everyone too.

Yeah.

Matt (40:27.714)
He is a very likable character. There's no complaints from me there. So how about you leave with worse characters to see if we have the same person? I don't know. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right.

Dave (40:36.136)
Oh, we definitely don't. We definitely don't. Anissa.

Dave (40:43.432)
She performs the worst and most vile act in the entire series. It's not even close.

Matt (40:53.538)
Alright!

Dave (40:55.72)
She's the most unlikable character. She's the worst.

Matt (40:58.178)
Okay. Uh, Rex, uh, Rex for me, because everything is just so personal. And I brought it up in like a previous episode of like, in the beginning, the threats were very physical there or whatever, but like, you know, you get to an angstrom, it becomes more personal. Rex makes everything personal. Uh, he, and whether he knows it or not, like he's the worst kind of dude. Like I, you'd have...

you prefer like a character like a thrag or something like, you know, you know what their intentions are in their end game. When they're on that flaxen planet, like Rex is like trying to be all good, goody goody to Amanda. But then behind the scenes, he's trying to like extinct that whole, like, I think it was Zach's own line or something. He's trying to wipe all of them out. The family, the kids, everybody, um, him taking over earth, you know, it, it appears to be a good thing. And some,

Dave (41:42.664)
Yeah.

Matt (41:55.618)
could say it's a good thing, but his means of how he goes about doing things are not always for the best. Yeah, I just, Rex sucked. I like seeing him get it in the end. It made it even better for me because I didn't remember half of this stuff. I was like, is he gonna be in this series at the end? I honestly couldn't remember. So yeah, no, I'm not a huge Rex fan.

from where he started to where he ended up being.

Dave (42:26.504)
Yeah, that's fair. I considered Rex for this, but early on, he wasn't that unlikable. And, you know, as much as it pains me to say it, every character that stayed on Earth, save for a very small percentage, all kind of came around to like, well, it's hard to argue with results. Even Nolan came around. Nolan was friends with Rex.

Matt (42:37.794)
No, yeah, he wasn't.

Matt (42:56.93)
This is a whole other argument, debate, for kind of like dictatorship, because I'm like, I don't know, man, things are real nice here, but you kind of have a dictator. And the same thing, Nolan's an emperor, and yeah, they handle it with some grace, but they kind of, I don't know, we don't see the democratic side of them voting on things and all that. They kind of bend their knee to the whims of the emperor. So it's like, anytime you have one person in power, I'm just like,

Dave (43:19.782)
Yeah.

Dave (43:26.92)
Rex wasn't really like, he wasn't in charge of Earth, though. He was orchestrating a lot that was happening, but he was no, but he but the governments of Earth were he monitored them. But he, at one point, I think they mentioned this in volume 20, or 23. At one point, he actually turned down the presidency of the United States. He was like, No, I'm not interested in that.

Matt (43:27.042)
But I get your -

Matt (43:32.332)
He was... He wasn't pretty, he is.

Matt (43:53.888)
Yeah.

Dave (43:55.656)
So despite Rex's flaws, he was a difficult character to like, but at times he was a difficult character to dislike too.

Matt (44:04.962)
Oh no, things were great. Crime was down. I bet a bunch of people would sign up for that now. The economy is booming. In the real world, people would be all for that. Except if you lived in Las Vegas or wherever. The place got glassed. For energy. No Raiders. Yeah, it wasn't him, but I feel like there's something else. I guess the deed was done and he was just like, I'm gonna make...

Dave (44:15.272)
Yeah. But even...

Dave (44:20.358)
Yeah, yeah.

That wasn't Rex though. That wasn't Rex.

Matt (44:33.826)
Use the power or whatever.

Matt (44:38.336)
I don't know, I could be conflating things, but...

Dave (44:40.808)
The Las Vegas turned into glass was Dinosaurus.

Matt (44:43.392)
That was Dinosauris, but I thought Rex, like, I don't know, or Rexman was maybe like he was right or something. I don't know.

Dave (44:47.048)
Rex helped them, yeah, he helped them build giant solar panels. Yeah, he was down for what Dinosaurus was doing. There's one point in a Rex and Mark fight where Rex even says that he admired what Mark was doing with dinosaurs. He thought that that's when Mark was at his best.

Matt (44:53.218)
It's on there, yeah. Okay.

Matt (45:09.986)
Yeah.

Dave (45:12.776)
Complicated dude. Also, you know what? He is probably, at the minimum, the dude's got Asperger's.

Matt (45:14.658)
care dude.

Matt (45:23.276)
But yeah, yeah, for sure.

Dave (45:24.744)
If he's not like deeper on the spectrum, dude cannot, he cannot handle human interactions well at all.

Matt (45:27.522)
Yeah, Spectrum, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Matt (45:34.466)
No, not at all. I think, did he say that? No, he was just like, no, he said something. When they were with him and Amanda were on that date, he's just like, I can see myself slipping worse in a, you know, like not understanding humanity or something like that. Like, I'm like, oh, that's a problem. Like that was in the reboot arc or whatever. Like, yeah, that's, that's not good. You know where this is going. But favorite moment, sir.

Dave (45:49.072)
Yeah.

Dave (46:00.552)
I'm going. I can go. I'll go. All right.

Matt (46:02.114)
I can go. My favorite, no, I'll go, I'll go, I'll go. I like, I like you, you, you, you, you're the scholar here. So my favorite moment, dude, I don't even like, I'm, I'm being dead serious. I, I know I read this series, but like when you got me into it, I don't know if I just jumped in at invincible returns and read like from there forward and then went back later and read the previous trades.

Dave (46:11.58)
I'm not.

Dave (46:28.528)
Hmm.

Matt (46:30.306)
Cause like that invincible returns one shot. Like it's pretty special to me for some reason. Cause like I just, that was the first comic I got of invincible. I know it was like one of the first, if not the first one I got. And the scene of like, I don't remember. I don't have the memory of like everything that was going on, but it was pretty dark and grim. Mark was wearing the blue and black suit. I don't remember what the arcs were, but I know they were obviously, it might've been the angstrom arc or something like just.

just bad stuff was going down. But that invincible returns one shot when he goes and visits, you know, art again, the costume maker and is just like, I built something, I made something for you. I think you might want this. And it's that panel of him like flying off in the traditional invincible costume. Like I hear like the Superman, you know, music in my ear, like, you know, the, the, the good, the, the.

Dave (47:23.472)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (47:27.056)
The squeaky clean hero, even though he's not squeaky clean, but like our hero is back. Like I love moments like that. So like that and any of those, like Ottley, the other pose where he does like, I love those super heroic poses that Ottley drew. So that was one of my favorite like moments in the series for sure. It's like the first thing that came to my mind. So yeah, I was like, yeah, that's probably my favorite moment.

Dave (47:53.576)
I could do a top 10 list for my favorite moments in Invincible. Nope. My favorite moment is when Mark gets his powers. I love it so much, it's platooned on my body. Yeah, I mean, was easy. But yeah, there's just that, and I talked about it in the first episode that we did on Invincible, but that was such a...

Matt (47:55.536)
I know you could, like...

Being a hero's bullshit, you remember?

Matt (48:06.768)
Yeah, it has to, I mean it has to say it better be.

Yeah.

Dave (48:23.144)
like attention grabbing moment for me for whatever reason. It was the right day, the right time, the right frame of mind for me to go, oh my God, this is amazing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I still remember exactly where I was, what I was doing. Like, the comic premiered in January, 20, well, I guess it was 21 years ago now.

Matt (48:32.194)
It's awesome how stuff can resonate with you depending like when it hits you. Like...

Matt (48:42.48)
That's off.

Matt (48:51.76)
Yeah.

Dave (48:51.848)
It was 20 years ago in last January when we first started this and I was working at Books Galore, my local comic shop back in my hometown of Erie, Pennsylvania. And I was closing the shop on a Saturday. There was no one in the store because it was snowing pretty bad out. And I was listening to music and just walking around looking for something to grab off the shelf to read to kill some time until I could close up at seven o 'clock and...

I grabbed Invincible off the shelf, I sat down at the counter, I started flipping through it and changed the trajectory of my comic book reading. I mean, 21 years later, now I'm doing a podcast talking about Invincible and how important it is to me and as incredible. So yeah, man, favorite moment. If that hadn't happened. If that hadn't happened.

Matt (49:28.08)
Who would have known? That's crazy.

Matt (49:34.35)
Yeah.

Dave (49:43.464)
I never would have recommended Invincible to you. You never would have read Invincible Returns. The dominoes that fall based on that one moment in time, it's incredible.

Matt (49:46.352)
to so many people.

Matt (49:52.368)
We'd be reading Howard the Duck or some shit like, no, who knows where we'd be. It's a dark linear correlation.

Dave (49:54.632)
God, probably. Probably.

Matt (50:03.312)
Oh man, good stuff. Yeah. All right. Dude, I wouldn't have found out probably about Robert Kirkman. Like who would have known? Who would have known? From Walking Dead, probably the TV show would have got me maybe, but I don't know. It definitely heightened it. Cause when I heard Kirkman, I'm like, oh, that's the Dave, that's the guy Dave likes. You know, so I gotta check that out. So favorite, best or favorite arc to me.

Dave (50:11.432)
I think you still would have. I think you still would have because of Walking Dead. Yeah.

Dave (50:23.56)
Hehehehe

Matt (50:31.856)
I mean, this kind of wasn't close, but dude, that Viltrumite War arc, like that's what I'm going to like pick that up as just like a standalone thing, like something and just read it. And honestly, I really liked the end of all things too. Like I liked the ending of the series. That was really cool. But the Viltrumite arc, uh, up there with Conquest, like Conquest was like also in there, but I'm like, no, dude, like that Viltrumite arc was really good reading this.

Dave (50:37.704)
I knew you were going to pick that. I knew it.

Matt (50:59.344)
I actually had to get like my car had to get like an oil change in the truck or something. So I brought like one of the hard covers with me and like, I was just like captivated and I wasn't even paying attention. Cause like I was reading that and then they blew up the planet and like the guy was talking to me and I was like so into it that like, I kind of zoned out for a second, but epic battles, Thaddeus Mark and Nolan blowing up Viltrum was insane. But like this was.

Dave (51:14.48)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Matt (51:26.064)
I don't know if we really saw it before. I could be misremembering, but like that was the art where we really saw like Thrags might like he ripped off Oliver's arm, bashed him upside the mouth, like busted his jaw, punched through Nolan, exploded it, faded. So yeah, like popped his head. Um, and ultimately like the other, like the gore is the one thing, but like, I did not see that ending coming where they had like this truce armistice and they're like,

Dave (51:39.75)
Guilt, guilt, fetus, didn't he?

Matt (51:55.056)
We're going to repopulate the planet. We're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything. You know, like we're not going to attack you. You figure there's going to be all this bloodshed on the planet and there wasn't. And it was just like a, like, where's this going to go? And that ultimately sets up the whole rest of the series. Like that whole, I mean that, that event and like Rex were like two of the major through lines to the end of the series. So, um, yeah, dude, Viltromite War is awesome.

Dave (52:23.624)
I considered Viltrumite War, but as I was going back through my notes, huh? I did know you were gonna pick it. Do you know what I'm picking then?

Matt (52:25.904)
You knew I was going to pick it. You knew I was going to pick it.

Matt (52:35.184)
No idea. You're prob - I'm gonna say the - Did you like the Rex and Amanda thing? That whole arc? Okay, I know you really liked that and I was like, really? Yeah, that's like might be the -

Dave (52:41.32)
That was a consideration as well. That was a consideration as well.

You know I can't pick something that Mark's not in. Come on.

Matt (52:50.064)
I don't know.

Dave (52:53.544)
No, so this to me, so the invincible war is the arc. But, but, but I you have to include volume 11, even though invincible war happens in volume 12, and it's only a handful of issues. Volume 11 leads directly into it and that like the volumes 11 and 12 as a complete

Matt (52:55.184)
Reboot?

Matt (53:01.2)
Yes, oh dude, yes.

Dave (53:23.336)
experience to me is probably one of my favorite. Well, it probably is one of my favorite or is my favorite, like, section of the comic, you get all of my favorite things. There's a bunch of Battle Beast in Volume 11. There's an astounding Wolfman crossover in Volume 11. When the invincible work kicks off, it's like the back half of Volume 11 is like the lead up to invincible war. It kicks off in 12.

Matt (53:43.92)
Okay.

Dave (53:53.032)
There's like tons of image comics guest stars like cyber forces in this like. Yeah, there's just so much like cool stuff. There's there's so much oddly gore fighting these other invincibles. And then when they finally win. They're starting to rebuild all of these destroyed cities and then conquest shows up when you like there's nothing happening, but this is like just a quiet aftermath.

Matt (53:57.968)
Oh, that's that one. You had a cyber force. Yeah.

Dave (54:21.736)
issue with Mark trying to help rebuild and clean up and then Conquest shows up, destroys Mark, kills Eve. It's the first time that Eve comes back to life. Dude, Invincible War had it all. It just had it all. Everything that I love about the comic is in Invincible War. Yeah.

Matt (54:38.384)
So invincible wars slash conquest. Okay. All right. I forgot. No, no, that's fine. No, that's fine. No, no.

Dave (54:43.432)
I know I'm cheating it a little bit, but I don't care. Just looking back at it, that section of the comic, it's just my favorite. It's my favorite one. It's so fast paced. The pacing of that is so relentless. And then I feel like after that, the comic slowed down quite a bit. And it needed to. And the next time you really feel that speed of storytelling is in...

The end of all things.

Matt (55:15.44)
Yeah, that was rapid. Yeah, it was really, it wrapped up super fast. All right. Well, I'm going to just do mine. Like the, the things you learned are the, like the one thing that I really learned is, I mean, I said it earlier from like one of, you know, one of the more influential characters from the series, which is Nolan and like the.

Dave (55:15.848)
because that also just happens like it wraps so fast.

Matt (55:41.68)
The lesson that Nolan taught me as he departed is like, no matter kind of what the circumstances are, like we can always strive to be better people. He didn't start off necessarily as the best character, but at the end of the day, he got there, he improved himself, and that's something I always will admire. Always give someone a second chance. Yeah, that was the one thing I kinda learned. And just.

Honestly, the importance of like family and friends, but I already talked about that earlier, so I'm not gonna harp on that again. So those are the two themes.

Dave (56:17.128)
For me, this isn't necessarily a new learning, but it's reinforced something that I knew, and that this is truly the best superhero comic book in the universe. Nothing comes close to this for superhero comics, and I don't think anything ever will. And sitting down...

Matt (56:23.792)
Yes.

Dave (56:41.832)
like month after month and forcing myself to like take notes and talk about it. And then like being able to get your input and your thoughts and feelings on this and where we agree and where we disagree. Man, to be able to still have like new ideas about this comic 20 years later, nothing, nothing can come close to this, sorry. And I just, I love that we get to do it together. So thank you for that. It's truly a special memory for me. So.

Matt (56:48.61)
written reflection.

Matt (56:59.426)
Yeah.

Matt (57:04.428)
Layers.

Matt (57:11.152)
I was like, we actually, we have these recorded, like these conversations that we can go back and like revisit them. Like that's part of the, the reason I like doing the podcast is like, I have this stuff on wax so I could just go back and listen to these conversations and laugh and all that good stuff. So yeah.

Dave (57:11.4)
Very happy. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's great.

Dave (57:23.432)
Same, man.

Me too. I do have one closing thought, and I'll close us out with this. And this isn't necessarily a thought. So just.

Matt (57:30.896)
Yes, close us out.

Dave (57:41.928)
If you haven't read Invincible yet, and for some reason you've tuned into this episode or any other episode, I guess this is really for people that don't listen to the episode or don't listen to the podcast or haven't read Invincible. If you're a listener and you have friends and family that you want to get into comics or want to get into this comic, I'll share with you...

Matt (57:46.16)
This is your first step.

Dave (58:10.12)
sort of a general thought on the book. And this is really about how I used to pitch it to people. Because I've gotten a lot of people into Invincible over the years. I should have been on the payroll at Skybound for how much work I've been doing. I'm like the street team for this comic book. But my elevator pitch has always been something to the effect of, this is really a story about growing up told through a disguise. And the disguise just happens to be one of the best superhero comic books that's ever been written.

This is the most important comic book in my life. And it's one of the best and most expertly executed stories about growing up, finding your way in the world, accepting who you are, who you want to be, who you sometimes need to be, and even sometimes who you just can't be. You're gonna find love, you're gonna lose it, you're gonna find it again, you're gonna figure yourself out, and then you're gonna find out that you still have more work to do. You're gonna experience grief and loss and anger.

You're going to have some really complicated family dynamics to navigate at times. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to hopefully learn from those mistakes and grow into something better. These are things that we're all going to go through in life. They're unavoidable truths. And as you live life, you're going to experience all of this and more. And when you read Invincible, Mark Gratian is going to be doing all of that right beside you.

It's the most relatable comic book I've ever read.

Do yourself a favor and go read it. Or if you already read it once, read it again, because you might find something new like we did.

Matt (59:52.944)
you will find something again. Well done. Well done.

Dave (59:57.832)
That's it. Invincible is a wrap. We'll be back in two weeks. We're reading the boys. We're going to do it as a group of boys. We're going to have a third with us. So the boys will be a year long reread like we did with Invincible. It's 12 trade paperbacks with the boys. So we're going to do one a month like we did for Invincible.

Matt (01:00:04.464)
Phew, that's gonna be some...

Yeah, the boys. The boys.

Matt (01:00:19.92)
Jump on board folks, that's a lot less reading. You could do a trade -a. You could do a trade -a. You could do a trade -a, my fucking... Yeah.

Dave (01:00:22.824)
A lot. Yeah, it's only six issues a month. Yeah, read it with us. If you need, hey, if you need the PDFs, find me on Twitter.

Matt (01:00:30.224)
Oh, yeah, invincible is worth your time. You closed that out perfectly, but it is worth the investment of your time.

Dave (01:00:41.544)
Alright y 'all, until next time, my name is Dave. Take care of yourselves.

Matt (01:00:44.816)
And I'm Matt.

Peace.