THIS EPISODE CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE INVINCIBLE COMIC BOOK
This month's Invincible re-read episode is volumes 19, 20, and 21.
I don't want to put too much in the description, you just gotta listen to this one. Too much risk of spoiling something here.
Follow our Instagram:
@comicdudespodcast
Follow our Tiktok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@comicdudeswithattitudes
Follow us on Twitter:
@Dave_xBT817x
@Warden43tk
@NuclearIsLonely
Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content
THIS EPISODE CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE INVINCIBLE COMIC BOOK
This month's Invincible re-read episode is volumes 19, 20, and 21.
I don't want to put too much in the description, you just gotta listen to this one. Too much risk of spoiling something here.
Follow our Instagram:
@comicdudespodcast
Follow our Tiktok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@comicdudeswithattitudes
Follow us on Twitter:
@Dave_xBT817x
@Warden43tk
@NuclearIsLonely
Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content
Dave (00:01.674)
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes, a podcast about comic books and comic book related things. It's that time of the month where we talk about invincible. If you remember last month, we made, we didn't make the decision on the podcast, but we did make a decision that this would be the month where we read three volumes of the trade paperback because there's 25 of them and this is a year long celebration. And if you'd know how to do math, it's two a month.
Matt (00:24.167)
for it.
Dave (00:30.61)
Except for that one month. This was that month.
So this is also the part of the podcast where I let you all know that there are massive, massive spoilers incoming about the Invincible comic book and the Invincible TV show. So if you do not want spoilers, now is the time to leave the episode. We'll give you a minute.
Dave (00:58.174)
metaphorical minute, not a literal one. You had a minute in the sense of I'm going to pause briefly, not a literal minute. If you forgot how these things work, I recap what we read. I'll give you the high notes, the main story beats. And then we're going to get into our sort of discussion, not really review more of a discussion we talk about that things we like the things we didn't
Matt (00:59.011)
Yeah, I was gonna say not really a minute.
Dave (01:24.574)
And then anything that was, you know, controversial or a hot take, perhaps. I have come prepared. I have not one, but two bottles of water to keep myself hydrated. Well, I do this recap, but hopefully it does not exceed 20 minutes, but it might.
Matt (01:38.171)
This is.
Matt (01:42.843)
This is gonna be the stuff of legend here, people.
Dave (01:46.478)
Oh, let me get a sip here and then we're going to just jump into it.
Matt (01:51.731)
I immediately thought of Dave after reading these three trades. I was like, Oh, this recap is going to be something dense here. This is going to be dense. Yeah. It's too much.
Dave (01:58.338)
telling you right now, there's a lot, I left out a lot in the recap. I really did try to just hit like main story beats with this one because there was just too much and it's three volumes, so. If you remember where we left off at the end of volume 18, we find out that Nolan is the heir to the Viltrumite throne. He is now in control of the Viltrumites. There's gonna be a lot of that.
Coming up, that I think was the main stuff. Dinosaur's died. Cecil exiled Nolan. Mark and Eve are having a baby. And I think that's like the main where we left off last time, yeah? I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. No, he's not yet. Yeah.
Matt (02:31.876)
Yeah.
Matt (02:44.803)
Yeah, pretty much Thrags. Thrag is exiled, right? Like, that was... No, no, he's not. He's not. Spoilers.
Dave (02:55.518)
Good job.
Matt (02:56.699)
Yeah. Oh, you said spoilers. So, yeah.
Dave (02:58.862)
Uh, well, yeah, better you spoiled the recap. That didn't really spoil the comic, but that's okay. Uh, let's get into it. So we start with Angstrom Levi living on earth. Uh, he's going for a jog. Life is good. He's making a coffee when he gets back, he looks at a newspaper and he sees that Mark is alive. Uh, he thought he was dead after the whole dinosaur incident, but no Mark is alive. We'll come back to that. Uh,
Nolan also has Thrag held captive and he tells Thrag that his punishment is not going to be death, but it's going to be life. He needs to live and see how Nolan changes the Viltrumites for the better. Eve is then surprised at the house that her and Mark live in, which is Mark's childhood home, by Angstrom Levy attacking. She can't use her powers though because of the baby.
So she's just sort of stuck. Mark shows up and then is immediately sent to the dimension where he thought he had previously killed Angstrom, only to find one of the alternate invincibles from that arc eating other dead invincibles. He's resorted to cannibalism to survive. Mark defeats that version of himself with the help of a third evil invincible.
and they both fly through a portal that Levi created and it brings them back to Earth. As they're about to attack Angstrom, Eve tells Mark to stop because she has been having a conversation with Angstrom while they were gone. Angstrom, Levi explains that he was wrong. He apologizes to Mark and then he surrenders because of what Eve had talked about while she was captured. The evil invincible.
leaves with Angstrom, leaves, he says, hey, we know what to do with these types of my dimension. And then at this point, Mark wants to try to find Angstrom because he's afraid of what will happen with the evil invincible. And he wants to save Angstrom now that he's sort of repented. And then at the end of this issue, Mark and Nolan have sort of a father-son type of a talk. We also get the return of one of my favorite characters, Battle Beast, and Alan gives Battle Beast a mission.
Dave (05:21.502)
and that mission is to hunt down and kill Thragg. And at this thought, Battle Beast is extremely excited because his one purpose in life is to find his equal and die in combat. And he thinks that Thragg is probably his best bet here. Mark and Eve then go and have dinner with Mark's mom and dad on the moon. Mark and Nolan are arm wrestling and from outside of
Matt (05:29.009)
Hehehe
Dave (05:51.63)
the old Guardians base that they live in, Mark notices that Anissa is watching. And this is the female Viltrimite we've talked about before in case you forgot. Also in this issue, Amanda sees Rex leaving a secret room in the Guardians of the Globe orbital base. More on that later as well. And Doc Seismic also comes back, but that dude ends up, oof.
He gets some things done to him and turns into a lot of monster. Amanda, aka Monster Girl, goes to visit her son that she fathered in Monster Form in the Flaxen dimension. And while she's visiting the new version of Seismic and this new character called Volcanica attack with a giant kaiju. Anissa helps defeat Seismic, Volcanica and the kaiju.
along with the Guardians of Mark. Then she kisses Mark and just flies off, sort of against Mark's will, she kisses him. And then Rex also helps Mark create a device that will help him track and find Angshim Levi. We end this trade with Mark and Rex going to the Evil Invincibles dimension. While there, Rex kills the Evil Invincible and also betrays Mark.
He kills Ankstrom Levi and then he tells Mark, hey, you know, we were friends, but sorry, man. Like only one of us can rule the earth and I think you're gonna be a problem. So I'm just going to leave you stranded here. See you later. And that's what he does. He leaves and Mark is stuck in this other dimension where a version of him is the ruler of earth.
Moving on to volume 20, an insane amount of stuff happens in the first issue of volume 20. Mark pretends to be the dead evil invincible. He finds the version in this dimension of Rex slash robot slash Rudy and a Moller twin, and they help him leave while also creating a clone of Mark's body for Rex to inhabit and rule this dimension.
Dave (08:14.354)
under the guise of being the evil invincible. At the end of this arc, the villager might unleash what they call the monster, which is actually just monster girl, but she's an infant because nothing has reversed her aging by using her powers. So we see ultimately what would have happened to Amanda had Rex not solved that problem for her. She would continue to de-age into an infant.
And as she did that, her monster form grew into what is now a giant kaiju, which is what the Viltrumites unleashed. At the last second, the transfer of Rex into the invincible clone body is complete. Mark escapes and then Rex helps the Viltrumites stop. Monster girl, we don't go back to this dimension again. That's it. Mark immediately goes to his house when he gets home.
Eve is furious with him because he has been gone for, I think it's six months. Um, after they had many, there was a lot of conflict between Mark and Eve around finding angstrom and whether or not Mark should even do that. She doesn't want Mark to leave and be gone forever because of the baby. Um, and, uh, she, she ends the relationship. She says, look, get out. Like, I'll, I need to stay here for a few weeks to figure my stuff out, but I'm done, like I can't do this anymore.
Matt (09:17.987)
Yeah. Yep.
Dave (09:41.706)
You can be a part of your child's life, but I can't be with you. Um, and then, uh, Mark distraught leaves to go find Rex slash robot, um, to confront him about what happened in the. The evil invincible dimension. And on his way there, uh, he is attacked by anissa who tells him that she has not done her part. Uh,
to help repopulate the Viltrimite Empire and she's decided that he is going to help her fulfill her duties as a Viltrimite and ultimately ends up raping Mark. It's a very difficult scene to read. We'll talk more about this later, I know we'll just leave it here now for the recap at Mark is raped by a Viltrimite woman. He's seen just sort of sitting stunned
half naked after Anissa leaves. A farmer gives Mark some clothes and then he's on his way. It's at this point that Rex makes his move. While Mark is warning Cecil about Rex, Rex shows up in a new robot body. He kills Cecil in front of Mark and then almost kills Eve. He rips her leg off.
Um, but she ends up stopping that new armor by using her powers. And, uh, Mark flies to the moon with Eve and asks for help. Um, while Mark is there, Rex starts his assault on the heroes of earth. He kills black Samson, he kills Donald, he kills the guardians of the globe. Uh, and so, so many more. And while this is happening, he's actually just sitting in his, his orbital base.
talking Amanda through what she thinks is a hypothetical scenario where he takes control of the Earth as its ruler, and by the end of it she realizes that this is not a hypothetical scenario. He's actually doing all of this with drones while talking to her. She opposes Rex rather than join him like he wants because of the time they spent in the Flaxen dimension. He assumed that she would see his logic and then...
Dave (12:03.642)
want to rule Earth alongside him like they did in the flaxen dimension. She does not. So he captures her and throws her out of the airlock to die in space. The Viltrumites end up saving Eve and deliver the baby. And at this point, Rex comes to talk to Nolan and the Viltrumites. There's also a scene here where Mark sees Anissa again. He is visibly shaken. His hands...
Matt (12:18.012)
I'm sorry.
Dave (12:32.25)
arms quiver a little bit and he snaps a little bit at her and at Nolan. Rex tells Nolan that it's in the Viltromites' best interests to work together. And this is due in part to the fact that Rex is going to make a utopia on Earth. And the best way for the Viltromites to complete their mission of repopulation is to do so in this utopia that Rex is creating. And if they were to oppose him.
while they may end up winning, they would lose so many of their number, they would set back their cause by too long, and Nolan agrees. Eve also suggests that her and Mark will get back together. They do not have a name yet for their baby, but things are looking up for our happy couple here, and volume 20 ends with Rex winning. He is in control of all of the nations of Earth.
He is now the ruler of Earth and the cost of which was the lives of many, many of Earth's heroes.
Home stretch, volume 21. This volume starts with a fight. It's Thrag versus Battle Beast. We also learn that Thrag is on the planet where Nolan fathered Oliver, and Thrag is repopulating. He is basically running a breeding camp.
Matt (13:41.187)
Yay!
Matt (13:48.943)
Hehehehe
Dave (14:07.49)
Throughout this volume, the first several issues, the Thragg and Battle Beast fight is happening. It lasts for days. And you just get like jump cuts to them, just like bloodied and beaten. I know we're gonna talk more about this later, so I'm just gonna leave it at that for now. And all the while this is happening, Mark and Eve are trying to figure out what to name their baby. And everything on earth is great, thanks to Rex. Crime is down.
Matt (14:15.963)
Yes.
Matt (14:22.691)
Yeah. Eh.
Matt (14:33.648)
Yeah.
Dave (14:37.254)
It really is bearing the fruit of the utopia that he says he's going to make. And while most have fallen in line, there are still some pockets of opposition, one of which is immortal. He actually meets with Mark. He wants to stage a counterattack. Mark talks to Nolan about it again. Nolan still doesn't want to do it. And at the end of all of this,
Mark says to Eve that he can't stay on Earth and do nothing about Rex. He's never going to accept what's happened here. So the only way for them to be able to move on from this is to leave Earth altogether. So Mark and Eve say their goodbyes to everyone on Earth. There's a scene where Eve wants to have sex and Mark sort of denies it in sort of post-traumatic fashion. And then while they are on the ship to...
Teluskriya where they are going to live, they decide while looking out on the earth from space that they will name their baby Terra. That way they'll always have a piece of earth with them. Mark and Eve arrive on Teluskriya. Alan sets them up in an apartment. My boy Oliver shows up. He is no longer purple. He is about Mark's age. He's much older. He has an insect girlfriend. And they make dinner for Mark and Eve to welcome them to Teluskriya.
Matt (15:52.644)
Hehehehe
Dave (16:02.954)
Mark ends up getting sick, and he also ends up telling Eve about what happened with Vanessa. Right after he finishes telling her this, Eve finds Tara has stopped breathing. They rush to a hospital. Tara survives. It's like a genealogy thing with different types of food on an alien planet. And they learn that, basically, Mark and Eve need a special diet.
while they're living there, what they need is Gildarian food, which is the race that tech jackets, suit and technology comes from. So as a nice little nod back to another Kirkman creation. Eve offers Mark a lot of comfort regarding the Anissa situation. There's some really nice back and forth there with that with Eve, you know, really doing the right thing, not victim blaming, supporting Mark, etc.
Matt (16:40.571)
Damn.
Dave (16:57.522)
And Alan also asks Mark to work for him as some sort of like Superman spy. It's at this point where we find out that Battle Beast is not faring well against Thragg. Thragg is extremely weak, and Alan asks Mark if he'll go and kill Thragg while weakened. Unfortunately, Battle Beast dies. Thragg kills him and takes his skin as a trophy because Battle Beast is like a tiger like creature.
Mark and Oliver go to Oliver's home planet. Thrag is long gone. He took all of his kids and a bunch of the women. We end volume 21 with Mark and Tara having some bonding daddy daughter time. Eve gets up that morning and they have like a nice little domestic family type of day. And we end the trade by finding out what Thrag has been doing.
and he is making an army. And we're going to find out a whole lot more about what that means very, very shortly because we only have four volumes left.
Matt (18:11.431)
Great job. Great recap. How many bottles of water do you have left?
Dave (18:16.323)
One and a half. Yeah, I did. Should I can I give myself a little can I?
Matt (18:17.467)
How you did? You did great. You can only use half a bottle then. You're great.
Dave (18:24.5)
I deserve this.
Matt (18:25.612)
I'm out.
Dave (18:28.778)
I really do deserve this. Thank you. All our, our studio audience is really above and beyond right now. I really, I'm feeling the love. Thank you all so much. This is great.
Matt (18:30.447)
You can get the whole thing, the whole thing.
Dave (18:42.542)
They're not done. There's more applause coming. Yeah. There's more applause coming. It tapers a little bit. I really appreciate all of you. Thank you so much. Couldn't do this without you.
Matt (18:43.887)
No, we're still going. Well, you get the whole thing.
Matt (18:55.015)
We appreciate everyone here tonight. Try the veal, try the veal. I'm sorry. Touch the nerve.
Dave (18:59.147)
Don't try the veal. I'm morally opposed to veal.
Hehehehe
Matt (19:07.459)
Alright, likes and dislikes and all that good stuff.
Dave (19:11.446)
Yeah, I need you to talk about the good. Give me some good. I got a lot of good.
Matt (19:13.383)
Okay, I'll talk about... Yeah, I surprisingly have some bad this time, so... Okay, so my first one reading this, I mean, this is good, but it's kind of like controversial, I guess, whatever. I mean... After reading this arc, man, of all the comics I have read, Robot might be Rex with Robot, whatever.
Dave (19:19.618)
So do I.
Matt (19:42.323)
He might be one of the most villainous people I've ever read ever characters I've ever read. And this one hit me a lot more like rereading it like we talk about. But I mean, I think the fact, the reason why is he one of my old favorite WWF pay-per-views was WWF in your house. Robot is bringing this shit and he is making it personal. He will come in your home.
Dave (20:09.771)
Hehehehehehe
Matt (20:10.627)
He will blow your wife's leg off. He will kill your baby. This man doesn't care. And the thing that's even scarier about it is he's just like, it's not busy, like it's not personal. Like Mark, I'm just going to strand you in this dimension. It's nothing personal, but like it is what it is. And he's just like cold and calculating about it. It is crazy, man. Like I just, in any villain like this that he has just so well thought out and he's thought of.
I mean, I do like how Kirkman writes him, like he does have some flaws in his logic, but for the most part, he's thought of every like scenario. He's thought of a lot of the different contingency plans. And I don't remember, so I don't even remember how we get out of this, if we get out of this. But the fact that he won at the end was like a shocker. I mean, it was kind of, I'll be honest, it reminded me of the whole Viltrumite thing. They kind of won. They got to stay on earth. But like...
Dave (21:06.754)
Mm-hmm.
Matt (21:09.835)
I don't know, man. The losses this time were, there was no losses in the Viltrumite thing, really. Like there was no human losses. Like, like you said, I was like trying to keep track of all the heroes. They got wiped out by Rex. Like I just, I couldn't, man. I couldn't, I couldn't do it. Like I would have to go like a Wikipedia page. Like, uh,
Dave (21:26.934)
You know, your boy Zandale is... Dude's a snitch.
Matt (21:31.307)
You know they had to make him... Why do you have to go crooked like Denzel? He had to be crooked before he took it. He had to go heel, man. They sold my man, always, always with the black guy. They gotta sell him out like that. They gave him the little Landell Calrissian treatment. That's what they did. They gave him the Landell. I didn't figure that until right now. They gave him the old Landell treatment. Oh, but yeah, dude, Rex. Yeah, go ahead. Bro, like...
Dave (21:34.414)
Dude's a snitch.
Dave (21:42.926)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Dave (21:54.318)
I agree with you on Rex. That's actually in my good as well. I actually wrote down that Rex's Betrayal is a top 10 all time comic book betrayal.
That's an all-timer moment.
Matt (22:06.412)
Like, we got Green Goblin and he kills Gwen Stacy, spoiler, sorry, whatever. But Rex is in your house. Him and Angstrom Levy, Angstrom too, but they come outside of your house. They're outside. They're waiting for, they're in your house. I don't know. It just hit differently with me. He doesn't care. Oh man.
Dave (22:27.326)
Yeah. And also it's, you know, and again, I do think this belongs in the good, because it's so, it's so abrupt and so seemingly out of character and you want to believe that all of the lessons Rex learned in the Flaxen dimension will actually prevent him from doing something that is so categorically evil. And, you know, it didn't, it's absolute power corrupting absolutely.
Matt (22:45.508)
Yeah, dude.
Dave (22:57.142)
And yeah, I actually, I have a controversial or a hot take about Rex as well that I'm gonna save for later when we get to that section. But yeah, I'm with you on him just being a fantastic villain is yes, and the good for sure. Also, before you, I just wanna say one thing. So there's a lot of really good like fatherhood and like baby stuff.
Matt (23:04.633)
Okay.
Matt (23:13.563)
So my other group, go ahead, you go.
Dave (23:24.946)
And I just need you to speak on some of that because I'm not qualified to. So if you don't have any of that in the good, I'm assuming you've got some thoughts on some of that because your perspective is so much different now versus when you read it originally. So I just want to make sure that you are saying something about it because I thought it was awesome. And I'm not like, I don't have any kids.
Matt (23:34.203)
Oh, I... Yeah... Dude... Yeah...
Matt (23:44.515)
Yeah, but like you're also like, you're, you're in a very serious relationship now. So like, I mean, your significant other is, is your Eve. So like, I'm, I am the last issue, 120 when it's just like all of the, like, different things of like him having that daughter time, like I started to tear up when I was, cause like I've before I hadn't really gone through that stuff, but like, and even like the first time they ate the meal or whatever and like Eve is like,
This diaper is like crazy. Like this is out of control. And like, and, um, she's just like this, I can, how did this come out of this kid, how did this come from like breast milk and there, do we even have baby diapers, like I showed that to Krista and like the next panel there, they were all passed out. Like that has happened. That is like 100% happened, like screaming and hollering in the middle of the night. And like, we all just passed out and the baby's sleeping on top of you. So like, yeah, dude, like that stuff definitely. And I have.
Dave (24:29.182)
Yeah.
Matt (24:42.459)
two daughters. So like that resonated with me even more. So like stories like this, things like the last of us, most of the time it's a lot of father, son stuff. So like when I get any father, daughter stuff that connects with me, like a lot more and like that whole, that in the one 20 issue, the whole, like Mark vocalizing and having that pledge to like, I will, I will try to be here. I will always be here. I will try to protect you. Like I have
Literally uttered those words like when Elena was born I that was the first thing I said to her It was like I will be here. I will protect you all that good stuff. So like it really it really we've talked about it like books like saga and it's like they really resonate and You know, it's this fantastical stuff, you know, they're eating even dude even the Oliver's girlfriend coming over and like making the meal
and Eve getting sick. Like my parents have made some questionable meals and Krista has gotten sick and has been like, this is your parents' fault. Like they did, you know, like we've, her parents, same thing with her mom. Like that is some real life stuff. Like, so yeah, that's just my, a lot, I love these series because a lot of that stuff really does resonate with me because it's happened.
Dave (25:45.294)
Hehehehe
Dave (25:50.356)
Yeah.
Dave (26:04.03)
Yeah, good. I'm glad. That was my first thing in the good. It just says, Matt needs to speak on all this baby and fatherhood stuff.
Matt (26:11.159)
Absolutely. Yeah, no, for sure. So can I ask you one thing? So this is a good thing. I must have misread this. So when you were going through your recap, obviously, um, angstrom, even, even him have the talk and everything's good. And he goes to the other dimension. So Mark, you're thinking Mark is going to save him because I thought I read it like Mark was going to take care of him because like,
Dave (26:16.3)
Yeah.
Matt (26:39.387)
He didn't believe him. That's kind of how I read it, but I don't like, I just want to know how you got to that conclusion. Or was it just more so Mark couldn't leave this unresolved? Like of what was, okay, either one way or.
Dave (26:49.53)
Maybe it is just not leaving it unresolved. Because I think you're right. I think maybe I just misspoke in the recap. I think he did just want to, he needed some finality to it all. But he also, I remember there was a couple panels where he did say like, I can't, I don't trust what's going to happen in that dimension with that evil version of me. Like, so maybe it was a fear of like, the evil, invincible.
Matt (26:55.979)
Okay. Cus-
Matt (27:00.128)
Okay, you need to close the loop regardless.
Matt (27:11.417)
Okay.
Dave (27:16.642)
using Angstrom Levy's powers to whatever could perpetuate evil, I don't know.
Matt (27:21.691)
So we can still chalk it up. We can chalk it up to however, however we both interpreted it. It's fine. But like my, the whole, it really brought up this, these, those two ish, uh, arcs 19 and 20 really brought up that existential like thing. And me like, originally I'm like, I think Mark is right, but I see Eve's side as well too, like, do you go in attack this thing head on, get it done?
know what's going on and get the finality or why are we stressing over something that could potentially not even happen or not even affect us? Like, and we go in there and you make it worse. And like originally I wrote at the end of one of the issues, I was just like, I agree with Mark, but he's being a dickhead. That's what literally what was in my notes when he was like, I'm going to go do it. And he was screaming it even whatever. And then that was the end of the one trade. It was the
Dave (28:07.918)
Hehehehehehe
Matt (28:15.183)
the one page of him sitting there with everyone dead, like, oh, fuck, like he's trapped in this dimension. Like, Eve was right. So it's like that is, I just love how Kirkman like writes it, man. It's like, he gives you both sides of the story, kind of, not kind of, he writes the story in two different sides in a compelling nature. And you can believe both sides. Even I don't know if this doesn't hit on your controversy, you'd have to speak on it if it does. But like you said,
Dave (28:22.862)
Mm-hmm.
Matt (28:44.291)
what Rex is doing. I mean, it's, it's a utopia for me. Like as a normal person, like things are great. What am I concerned about? There's no crime. We have energy. We have free energy and stuff. Like, you know, it's great for the common man, but, uh, yeah. So that was that. Yeah.
Dave (28:50.336)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (28:58.455)
Yep.
Dave (29:01.794)
think that Mark has seen Angstrom Levy hurt his mom and Oliver in front of him. He's watched Eve die by the hands of conquest. He's seen Eve attacked by Angstrom Levy. He's got he's had so many of his loved ones attacked right in front of him that I think that at some point
Matt (29:11.167)
in his house, in that house.
Yes!
Matt (29:21.927)
traumatic events.
Dave (29:30.314)
you're going to, anyone is going to mentally break and go, no, like I am taking care of this because I'm not going through this a fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth time, whatever. So I can understand, yeah, Mark was being a dick, but I could, I understood where he's coming from because you want to protect your loved ones. You want to do the right thing. You want to make sure that they're going to be safe. And the more often that those things happen,
Matt (29:46.022)
Yeah.
Dave (29:56.266)
the more you start to feel like you're at fault and you take personal responsibility for their safety. So I get it. But also I think Eve was right.
Matt (30:01.52)
For sure.
Matt (30:07.027)
Great Kirkman writing. Uh, your boy Battle Beast. He's a Klingon man. Honor bound. My man's honor bound. Uh, dude, that whole thing of just like they'd be marketing for shopping and all of his girlfriends making dinner. And then the next page you're like punching each other. It's like this epic, like Dragon Ball Z Clash Fest. And it's like, goes back to the story. I love how they were just fighting. It's simulated them fighting an entire trade.
Dave (30:08.831)
Yes.
Dave (30:15.956)
I love Battle Beast.
Matt (30:34.167)
I think it was like, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they said it was like two weeks or something that they were fighting. Like it was crazy. Like, yeah. Uh, he makes a fantastic cloak, Dave. Let's be honest. He was a really good cloak and he made it. He made it a long way in the series. He made it a very long way in the series. He did. Why did you have to want that? You're such a cool character. He's like the last issue. It's like, thank you. He's like, I'll beat them. It's crazy.
Dave (30:38.987)
Yeah.
Dave (30:46.37)
No.
Dave (30:51.402)
He got what he wanted. I just don't like that that's what he wanted.
Dave (30:58.203)
I know.
Dave (31:01.818)
Yeah... Hate it.
Matt (31:03.663)
Do you know if he, I know that you said he's in, he's definitely in that Invents Skybound X one shot. Is he in any of those other, do you know like, ancillary series like the Guardians of the Globes or anything or no? Okay, I don't know. Okay.
Dave (31:09.368)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (31:16.37)
I don't remember if he's in Guardians of the Globe or not. I know astounding Wolfman's in Guardians of the Globe.
Matt (31:21.483)
Okay, I should, I need to get on that at some point. Yeah, you. I need to add that to the list. Uh, we talked about, I just put the evolution of Mark and Eve, his parents, and then especially Mark, we talked about that stuff. So I want to hit on that. Um, but I did like the couple Kirkman references as always, like him going back to the comic book store and the guy had held his books for like,
Dave (31:24.15)
You should read A Sounding Wolfman, dude. That book's awesome. It's so good.
Dave (31:47.53)
Yep. A year or two years. Yeah.
Matt (31:48.751)
two years or year, whatever. And I think you're right. It was like a year. And he's just like, yeah, I dropped the book but I'm reading your stuff honestly. So I don't care. And the whole like, I didn't catch it the first time but that crew is like the Star Trek crew. Like Kirkman playing on Star Trek, like next generation cast and some of the Voyager cast. And then when I really cracked up today, Mark getting the cat out of the tree on the alien world.
Dave (31:56.239)
Hehehehehehehehe
Dave (32:03.938)
Yeah.
Matt (32:16.835)
And he gets this like animal down and this little girl like rips this thing's face off. And like, this is that we're in a whole different ball. We're not in Kansas anymore. Like this is a different ball game out here on this alien planet. So, uh, that was good. I really enjoyed that stuff. So that was all my good.
Dave (32:16.886)
Hehehehehehe
Dave (32:35.082)
I have a few others that you didn't specifically mention.
Dave (32:42.15)
Otley Gore is all over the place in these three volumes. The, particularly when the evil Invincible died, that was an insane panel. That was actually, I think that's the only panel in the comic that I actually had to look away at first. Like it made me a little squeamish because it's just so, it is so detailed and so well drawn and disgusting. Obviously the Thragg and Battle Beast fight was phenomenal.
Matt (32:44.315)
Good? Yeah.
Matt (32:54.915)
Ooh yeah.
Matt (33:12.855)
Not when, not when conquest has a man's liver in his hand. That didn't, that when he ripped his entire intestines and all that, that didn't bother you. You're cool with that. Okay. Just making sure. All right. Sounds good. Sounds good.
Dave (33:12.95)
There's just...
Dave (33:20.079)
No, no. All the stuff with like, Rex's drones just ripping through the heroes. Some really crazy, insane, like just the deaths that occurred, the injuries that occurred, you know, Eve's leg getting ripped off. This is such a like bright and happy looking comic and then the juxtaposition of this just absolute like...
Matt (33:41.561)
Yeah.
Dave (33:45.926)
horror level gore. Chef's kiss. In volume 20, right after the Anissa and Mark assault, there's a little nod to Superman. Did you catch it?
Matt (34:03.753)
I was gonna stop you in the recap. That's Jonathan Kent with the clothes. This is Jonathan Kent. It's he framed
Dave (34:06.526)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and when he flies up with the overalls, isn't there a Superman cover where he's just wearing the overalls like that? I feel like there is.
Matt (34:15.403)
I think you might, I'm sure there is, but I mean, new 52, he would wear in the jeans and stuff. But like when there's the massive crater in the ground and like the farmer comes up, I'm like, that's pretty much a play on Jonathan Cairn.
Dave (34:24.186)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was a fun little, even though I don't like Superman, that was a little tip of the cap that I appreciated. When Mark and Eve are preparing to leave Earth, I thought that there was a very touching little check-in where Mark just goes to make sure that Amber is okay. I thought that was a nice little gesture. And then my last thing on the good.
Matt (34:28.775)
Okay, okay Dave, I see you Dave.
Matt (34:45.481)
Yeah, that was cool.
Dave (34:55.806)
um I guess there's really two more things. One there is so much stuff that happened in these three volumes that I didn't touch on the recap. There is just so much stuff. I know I say that there's spoilers and there are spoilers in these episodes but I didn't spoil all of it, not even close. So much stuff to read still. And then my last thing in the good was and I've mentioned this before and I'm sure I'll mention it again.
Matt (35:01.391)
dude yet.
Matt (35:08.967)
Thank you so much.
Dave (35:22.942)
I know I will by the time we end this year long invincible celebration, but...
Mark and Eve are just an incredibly written couple. It is so relatable and so much of what they feel for one another is grounded in the everyday. What we experience as non-superhero regular humans just living and going about our lives. They are, God, I love Peter and MJ so much from Spider-Man, but man, Mark and Eve are probably the best comic book.
Matt (35:36.985)
I only, man.
Dave (35:58.538)
couple I've ever written. The only thing I've not written read. I didn't write it. God, I wish. The only thing that kind of comes close would be Mark and Alana in Saga or Marco and Alana in Saga.
Matt (36:12.363)
Disrespect, disrespect to Marco.
Dave (36:17.71)
Mark and Eve are absolutely the best comic book couple. Hands down.
Matt (36:20.235)
Yeah, I think so. I think so.
Dave (36:25.956)
Uh, we're good to move on to the bad, right?
Matt (36:28.367)
Good to move on to the band.
Dave (36:29.934)
Alright, I don't have a lot of bad. They're mostly like, quick hitters. Uh, I absolutely fucking hate Alan for sending Battle Beasts after Thragg.
Matt (36:40.366)
Enemy number one.
Dave (36:43.736)
We used to hate Oliver. Oliver is best friend now. Now we hate Alan.
Matt (36:50.041)
Yeah. It's okay. Tara punched him square in his eye and I was cracking up. Punched him dead in the eye. Bop.
Dave (36:54.29)
That was fantastic. I hate Alan for sending Battle Beast to basically descend into his death. That Mark and Eve argument before he and Rex leave to go find Angstrom Levy when they go to the evil invincible dimension. Man that whole exchange just really bummed me out. You know you don't
Matt (37:15.024)
Yeah.
Matt (37:18.435)
Yeah, you care.
Dave (37:20.19)
Yeah, you care about these characters so much. I do, at least. And man, that was tough to read. Also, again, relatable, because they're written like a very real human couple, despite the fact that one is half alien and one has superpowers. Angstrom Levy's redemption arc being cut short. I thought that was one of my bad, because I wanted to see that, I wanted to see more of Angstrom Levy, the good guy.
and I didn't get to. Thragg killing Battle Beast is a separate line item here. It just has to be because that was also bad. I hate Alan for sending Battle Beast on the mission. And I hate Thragg for killing him. I understand why we couldn't let Battle Beast kill Thragg, but we also didn't have to kill Battle Beast. The dude just found a mate that was his equal. Like he just found love and we killed him. I don't know, man. I think it sucks.
Matt (37:50.075)
Yeah.
Matt (38:02.289)
You hate everything.
Dave (38:19.767)
I got two more. During Rex's assault on Earth.
Matt (38:25.403)
He went to the black barber shop and showered everyone up. That's on my bed.
Dave (38:28.934)
No, that's not that this is the different one for me. The the Martian. Guy. Yeah, when shapesmith is dying, he's literally on a rooftop like guts are hanging out, tears streaming down his face and he says, I thought we were friends. And then Rex says, we were it's nothing personal.
Matt (38:35.623)
Shape Smith, Shape Schist, Smith whatever. Yeah.
Matt (38:46.587)
We were.
Matt (38:51.967)
It's all personal with this guy. He's like Belichick. Cold. Yeah.
Dave (38:54.618)
I just thought that was a particularly sad death. Dude was crying. Dude just wanted friends. Shapesmith has always just been like good vibes and I want to make friends. It's like killing a puppy killing this dude. It was sad.
Matt (39:13.423)
You're on, I'm glad I'm here for the day of redemption, or you turned heel on him when I talked about him in the first two volumes. You're like, this guy sucks. He's always causing issues. You proud of him? Yeah.
Dave (39:23.623)
He did. It doesn't mean his death can't be sad. What do you want from me? I'm sorry that I'm multi-layered. Gosh. My last one, and I think you probably share this one as well, but Anissa's assault of Mark was... It didn't like that.
Matt (39:30.503)
I'm gonna go to bed.
Matt (39:40.203)
Yeah, that's my number one. So you could cross that off my board. Tough. Dude, that was that was that was tough. That was a tough issue to read. I definitely remember that. It's not a good thing, but I did appreciate in the history of comics of horrible things happening to women. I did like that it happened to a man for once. I'm sorry, like, I know that sounds weird, but like
Dave (39:48.782)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (40:07.862)
Yeah. No, it doesn't.
Matt (40:08.867)
Women get victimized all the time in comics. All, check the women in refrigerators thing. You know, like it was refreshing to see that it happened to Mark. And then like, we let this breathe and there are consequences of that decision. You see everything that Mark is going through in his relationship and Eve and how she supports and like all that stuff. Like they let it breathe and it just, it wasn't, it's not just something that happens and then we don't ever talk about it again.
Dave (40:37.974)
Yep. You should have put that in the good instead of the bad.
Matt (40:38.124)
I did appreciate that.
Well, it's weird, like, oh, rape is a good thing, you know, like, I just felt weird about that, so.
Dave (40:46.082)
Well, I mean, I think most people are nuanced enough to understand that's not what the message would be if you were to say that.
Matt (40:50.719)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, um, I really, if you're done with your bad, the Anissa thing is like my number one. So that's honestly a good segue. So that's done. Um, I, the, uh, trade 20, we still get the artly, the oddly art, but whoever the colorist is, I don't like the change, the, the colorist or letter, like it's all scratchy and it looks different. And, uh, it's the art snobbing me.
Dave (40:58.946)
Mm-hmm.
Matt (41:20.215)
I don't love it. I already flipped the head to the next volume. So 21 and it looks back to the original Otley style. So I'll be more, I'll be more excited, but I remember the end of the series was definitely 22. Okay. So 22 then not every 20, 20. Yeah. I read up to, I read up to the battle be stuff. So a 22, it looks more like the art style that I know and love, but I do remember
Dave (41:31.495)
We read 21. It should be 22 is up next. I hope you read 21. Ha ha ha.
Matt (41:47.007)
As this series was ending, like the last arcs, I want to say, it wasn't consistent oddly art, so I will be griping during that as well too. Like.
Dave (41:55.07)
Yeah, well that's intentional though. Robert had Cory Walker come back and do some art near the end because Cory helped create the characters in the comic and did the first like seven, eight issues, whatever.
Matt (41:57.735)
Bye, guys.
Yeah, you know, yeah, I get it. I get it. And I don't want to slander Corey because Corey is a much better artist than I can ever be, but like I'm just spoiled now, so it's hard for me to go back. My only other thing is I have to make a public apology to Dave. And this is like, though, this is the worst thing.
Dave (42:12.606)
Yeah, I understand.
Dave (42:22.442)
Let's go! Hold on, let me get... Let me prepare. Let me prepare here.
Dave (42:32.567)
Okay.
Matt (42:33.021)
Do you need another bottle of water?
Dave (42:35.677)
Yeah, let me get a sip real quick. Let me get a sip real quick.
Matt (42:37.255)
get a sip of water, look me directly in the eye.
Dave (42:43.391)
Okay, I'm ready.
Matt (42:43.651)
So when reading this series, it has been much more enjoyable using Guided View. And I hate Guided View. Um, these page turns and especially the last pages, the splash panels, like I'm normally an audience, I'm normally a full screen iPad guy. Um, if I'm not reading on a big monitor, like if I'm at work or at home reading,
Like I really enjoy that, but like guided view, I read a majority of these issues and like now I kind of like, I'm on that for a little bit. We'll see if I go back, but I've really.
Dave (43:27.767)
Love it.
Matt (43:29.491)
I know we've been having some good dialogue. Unfortunately, the best Guided View is on Comixology and it is what it is. So Global Comics, I'm calling you out. I really want you guys to get your stuff together. So I can start utilizing your app and using Guided View in there because I really don't wanna support the evil empire. But if I have to, I can't win all the battles, but I'd prefer to support someone else that does it right. So I've been using a lot of Guided View and it was great.
Dave (43:59.786)
I'm glad to hear it. Apology accepted. I got to say Guided View, I had no problems this time. There was nothing weird about these three volumes for me. They really worked really, really well as intended, which is great.
Matt (43:59.983)
That's it. That's it, man. That's it, man.
Matt (44:08.035)
Yeah, no.
Matt (44:13.991)
It's a shocker when that happens. Things go the way they're supposed to, right?
Dave (44:19.464)
Do you have you have hot takes?
Matt (44:20.851)
I really, nah, I mean, I don't have, my main hot take was the Rex thing, but I don't have anything.
Dave (44:24.358)
Okay, it's okay. Okay. All right. I've got three. And I guess I don't know really if this is controversial. But it kind of is. And it's gonna get it's gonna get a little dicey here. I think. So if you remember I mentioned this in the recap when Mark and Eve are on the moon having dinner with Nolan and Debbie.
and Mark and Nolan arm wrestle and Anissa is watching through the glass from outside. Mark sees this and while they're arm wrestling, Mark lets Nolan win because he doesn't want Nolan to appear weak in front of another Viltrumite because Mark is afraid that they will turn on Nolan if they think that he is weak because Viltrumite
Matt (45:20.216)
Mm.
Dave (45:21.822)
The way of the villager maid is only the strong survive and only the strongest will lead. That's the old way. So Mark misinterprets that situation. He thinks that she's looking to see what Nolan is going to do when she is in fact sizing up Mark for what is going to happen several issues later.
Matt (45:43.751)
Bro, that is some deep, that's some deep analysis. That's some deep.
Dave (45:53.323)
That's how I interpreted this now on reread number three. I think that's the only way that scene makes any sense contextually with what happens afterwards. I don't think anyone is going to challenge Nolan because he has the blood of royalty in his veins. He is a direct descendant of Argyle.
Matt (45:53.903)
I love that. I love that though.
Matt (46:15.215)
The end goal.
Matt (46:18.987)
Our goal, dear.
Dave (46:19.274)
who is the leader of the Viltrimide Empire. I don't think he is in danger, but Mark's desire to always be the protector of everyone in his life. He has a bit of a savior complex sometimes. And this time he really ended up to his own detriment thinking he was helping his dad when really, you know, he was the target in all of that. And this was one of the people that helped Nolan when Thrag was almost going to kill him.
Matt (46:32.807)
He sure does.
Matt (46:48.238)
Yeah.
Dave (46:48.774)
in volume 18. She's not going to turn on him if his son beats him in arm wrestling. Mark doesn't know that. Unfortunately, he finds out why she was doing that. And that brings me to my second hot take slash controversial opinion. And I don't think this is really controversial, but I don't think it fit in the good or the bad either. But the way Kirkman handled the assault on Mark, absolutely incredible.
I cannot find fault in anything that he did. It was difficult to read, difficult to watch happen. There's many uncomfortable moments throughout what comes after. Like you said, he lets it breathe. There are actual ramifications to the actions. This ripples through Mark's life in...
The way he interacts with Nolan around other Viltrumites, the way he interacts with Eve, the way he reacts when he sees Anissa, his own sort of anxiety about what happened afterwards, the way he has those little shakes and tremors when he sees her. It's just absolutely incredible. And yeah, I agree with you. Like having this happen to a male character or a masculine character is something that does not happen in comics.
Um, and it's, it was, you have to remember too, this happened like what? 15 years ago or something. Like this was so progressive at the time in 2023. I don't think anyone would bat an eye if this was written into a comic book. But when this happened, no one was doing stuff like this. Not, not at a, like, you know, the third biggest comic publisher, image comics. So
Matt (48:24.396)
Yeah, yeah.
Dave (48:41.614)
I say masterclass often in these parts of the podcast when we talk about invincible, but this is yet another edition of the Robert Kirkman masterclass of writing comics. The way that entire thing was handled is just incredible.
Matt (48:51.055)
Yeah, no.
Dave (48:57.774)
There's not much more to say other than that. And my final hot take.
Um, and we talked about this already as well. This goes back to Rex and his betrayal. Um, Rex is probably the best villain in the entire comic because of how truly evil he is, but doesn't know it. He actually compares himself to Dinosaurus when he's talking to Mark and trying to convince Mark that he is in the right. Um...
And the key difference here is that, well, dinosaurus may have been a creature of pure logic, which are Mark's own words. Rex is also a creature of pure logic, but he does not possess a conscience.
Matt (49:50.787)
Yeah, he can't be reasoned with. Dinosaurus was reasoned with at the end.
Dave (49:55.73)
It's about knowing the difference between right and wrong. And Rex does not possess that. He sees everything is a binary decision to Rex. I can fix things, so I should. The means to that end are irrelevant because the end is the only thing that is important.
Matt (50:13.915)
The only thing that confused me about Rex is like how he has this relationship with Amanda. Like, that's the only piece of like humanity to him. You know, like I just didn't understand. Like he is truly a robot, but he cares for Amanda. Like that's the only like flaw in human flaw in him. Well, it was until he threw her out of the airlock. But yeah, that, yeah. I noticed too, when I was reading it this time with Rex that
Dave (50:21.934)
What do you mean?
Matt (50:43.423)
Like I think the reason all everything you said is valid, but I think the reason Rex is so scary to me is Like I would rather it personally i'd rather get my ass kicked any day of the week Then go through like mentor emotional trauma This series starts out Nolan beating the shit out of mark progresses to the viltrumites beating the shit out of mark being a little bit more logical angstrom physical threat
but more logical and calculated. And then you get to this ultimate evolution as of right now. And this is like pure logical, thought out, less physicality. Rex is even like, I know you can take me on a one-on-one fight. That's why I'm getting you up out of here. Like that's what's so like terrifying about this. And Anxium was kind of the same way. He's like, I know you can beat me in a fight. So we're gonna get you up out of here. Like.
I don't know, I'm gonna attack someone close to you. I'm gonna come to your house. Like that's why it's just like crazy, man.
Dave (51:48.606)
That's a great point because this comic, it builds and it builds and it builds and it builds and each new sort of there's 25 volumes of the comic in trade paperback form but there are also there are large arcs of Mark's life that we experience. We start out and Mark is a teenager and he's getting his footing and he's
Matt (51:53.487)
Yeah.
Dave (52:17.462)
sort of bright-eyed and like excited about the future. And then you get into this arc where he is sort of growing into his powers of viltrumite. And he's got this sort of temper control problem and he's figuring out who he is and who he wants to be and how he wants to be heroic with these powers that he has. And then he starts to transition into adulthood and he's got this serious relationship and he and Yvar are engaged and they have a baby and his threats.
change. He goes from traditional superheroing to like this not like world threat. This is a you took a massive L world threat. Like you've already lost. You can't win. So what are you going to do?
Matt (52:59.46)
Yeah, it's over.
Dave (53:03.958)
those are the types of things that you deal with in life. You come up against problems in life that have no solution. Your only solution to rectify some of life's curveballs that come your way is to just step to the side and walk past it. That's what Mark does with Rex. He can't win and he knows he can't win. So the only way forward is to step aside and leave Earth.
I just think it's interesting. It's just such a, it's such a well thought out. I don't know if I'm giving Kirkman too much credit for planning out 144 issues of a comic book ahead of time. I don't know if he did, but.
Matt (53:34.567)
Good point.
Matt (53:42.851)
No, I don't think you are. His track record, his track record, he deserves all the flowers he gets.
Dave (53:47.777)
Yeah.
Dave (53:51.01)
Fair.
Matt (53:53.431)
In my opinion.
Dave (53:56.834)
So we're winding it down, man. We got four more trades left. We got 22 and 23 in November, and then 24 and 25 in December. And then in January, we start a new year long celebration. I'm not gonna say what it is yet. We'll wait until January for everyone to find out, but it's another comic that will take us a year to read.
Matt (54:00.251)
Sad.
Booth said.
Dave (54:24.438)
but it's got high CAF as many trades. So it won't be as brutal on me doing recaps. I could recap six issues at a time instead of 12 to 18.
Matt (54:29.44)
That's good.
Matt (54:35.568)
Love it.
Dave (54:36.59)
So yeah, we'll be back soon-ish. I don't know when this episode will come out because the Invisal episodes kind of come out when they come out. But I know we owe everybody an episode on Monday coming up here, so we'll have something out in a few days. Our time. Two weeks your time. It's been two weeks potentially since you saw us last. Who knows? I don't. I'm rambling. I'm going to wrap it up. If you'd like to follow us on social media, our Twitter handles are in the description
My threads handle is in there as well. We release episodes, audio and on YouTube. If you like what we do, share with a friend, review the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Those things help us with reach, helps the podcast grow and growth means we can continue doing it. So these are all good things if you like the content that we produce, we hope you do. Any parting words?
Matt (55:31.168)
No, I'm good. I don't really have anything special. No.
Dave (55:34.43)
Okay, well with that said, we'll see y'all when we see you. My name is Dave. Take care of yourselves, everybody.
Matt (55:40.592)
And I'm out.
Peace.