66: Invincible Pt 8: 🦎 Dinosaurus, The Viltrumite War Fallout, and More!

THIS EPISODE CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE INVINCIBLE COMIC BOOK

This month's Invincible re-read episode is volumes 15 and 16 of the comic. Dinoasaurus comes back (remember him?), there's some friend on friend and family on family disagreement over the Scourge Virus, and more Viltrumite War epilogueing (is that a word?)

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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content

Dave:
that time of the month again where we read invincible and talk about it on our podcast. The new bi-weekly structure of the podcast has this coming out on some random day. I don't know when it's coming out so I don't know how many days it's been since the last episode. Might be like three or four days, might be a week or two, I don't know. I do know with the utmost confidence that by the time You're all listening to this episode. We'll know for sure that Blue Beetle is another DC flop at the box office. I can tell you that much for sure. Have you, did you see that?

Matt:
I didn't see everything. I didn't, I didn't see how much numerically it flopped or whatever. I just saw the buzz, the, the site, the random, is it tweets or Xs? I don't know what it is anymore of. Uh,

Dave:
I'm calling them tweets forever. I'm

Matt:
okay.

Dave:
not calling

Matt:
They're

Dave:
to

Matt:
the

Dave:
that.

Matt:
random tweets that it's a failure from variety, like legitimate sites and I'm like, yep, okay.

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
So yeah.

Dave:
It warms my cold dead heart, I'll tell you that.

Matt:
It's not good. We said that last time. Who's this for?

Dave:
Not us, we know that

Matt:
Dadas,

Dave:
much.

Matt:
dadas.

Dave:
Um, so if you've forgotten how these invincible episodes go, I will recap the main story beats of what we've just read. And then Matt and I will talk about the things that we thought were good about these issues that we read, what we thought may have been not so good or bad. And then some hot takes and some controversy in our opinions.

Matt:
Hehehe

Dave:
That's how the Brits say controversy.

Matt:
it.

Dave:
So, yeah, without further ado, let me get into it here. And for those that don't remember. The last invincible episode was the Viltrumite war. A lot of shit happened in the Viltrumite war, and a lot of it bad and a lot of it good. However. We pick up. Post Viltrumite war still, this is worse. We do get a lot of Viltrumite War aftermath throughout both volumes that we read this time. It was volumes 15 and 16 for me. I know that was a different thing for Matt. Matt, what issues was it that you read?

Matt:
Uh, it was 80 or 79 through 90. Uh, it was

Dave:
Okay.

Matt:
invincible. The hardcovers are weird. I think it was like seven and then it ends halfway through eight. So that's kind of, it's, it's hard cover seven and eight.

Dave:
Interesting.

Matt:
Yeah,

Dave:
Okay.

Matt:
they're not like, it's not like one book. It's normally I'm ending in like the middle of another volume. So it's weird.

Dave:
Oh, that sucks. I'm sorry. I didn't know that.

Matt:
Yeah. No, it's fine. It's cool. That's fine. I like that. At least with these, it tells you the issue number, unlike some where

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
it's just like chapter one, two, three. Like I'm like, what? Like, I have no idea where I'm at. So

Dave:
That's what the trade paperbacks do.

Matt:
that's

Dave:
They're

Matt:
yeah,

Dave:
all chapters.

Matt:
that's how the trades are. Yeah. The hard covers are at least like

Dave:
That's how

Matt:
79.

Dave:
my notes are broken up a little bit this time too.

Matt:
Got you.

Dave:
So anyway, we start volume 15 and Mark is visibly aged now. He's being drawn by Olly like he's in his 20s. I think it's kind of normal aging in this comic, but we do have a little bit older version of Mark. to the classic look and his original costume. And Eve is still pretty self-conscious about her body post, you know, Viltrumite War, Mark being gone, her kind of letting herself go. And the first issue of this trade, Mark and Eve go to a mortal and duplicate's house to see their twins and eat dinner. It's also here that we find out what happened with the whole Eve being pregnant situation. and she hit it with a Harry Potter spell, got the old fetus deletus and had an abortion. So that's ultimately what happened with the pregnancy. We also get the return of Dinosaurus. I told you all he was coming and he's going to be important. We're going to talk

Matt:
Oof.

Dave:
a lot about dinosaurs today.

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
After that, Mark and Eve get the house to themselves, Mark's house to themselves, because head to Telestria. We also get William finally coming out as gay. Mark has a heart to heart with a villain with gravity-based powers in this issue. The guy's like stealing from a bank. Mark just, instead of using his fists, just talks to the guy and says, "'Hey man, like make good decisions. Like, just don't do this.'" They work it out. Mark takes the guy's stuff and that's it. And then Mark goes to the comic shop and picks up his comics, which he hasn't picked up for like a year. because he was off planet fighting in the Viltrumite War. Also, I don't want to undersell this, but in this issue, Dinosaurus also completely blows up the city of Las Vegas and turns

Matt:
Glasses it.

Dave:
the entire ground into glass with some bombs that he had strategically placed all over the city. Lots of people died. Las Vegas is literally gone now. We pick up the next issue with Mark dealing with all of the fallout from the Las Vegas situation. You know, trying to just work through what's left over. The villain Powerplex, who we've talked about before, who blamed Mark and Nolan for his sister's death, and then his wife and child's death, even though he killed them, is now fully reformed and with a team called the Actioneers. You may not know who the Actioneers are if you haven't read The Astounding Wolfman by Robert Kirkman. The Actioneers are in that comic quite a bit. We don't see them often in Invincible, but they are in this episode, episode issue. When Power Plex sees Invincible, dude freaks out, like loses his shit. And then that's, you know, a whole thing. Mark and Eve also stop a bank robber who's using all of the gravity tech that guy from a couple issues ago had. So Mark goes and confronts him. His fiance opens the door. It's a very awkward conversation, but sort of a funny interaction. And ultimately, Mark, again, rather than doing the traditional superheroing type of solution, um, he takes the dude to Cecil and gets him put

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
on the payroll at the Pentagon and makes this guy, you know, puts them on a better path, which I thought was cool. Uh, Mark is also attacked by power plex. Um, that. resolves the same way every other powerplex fight resolves with someone holding him until he powers down. Hopefully this is the last time we see Powerplex. I just don't like the dude. There's also a lot of really good Cecil interactions in this issue, just with, you know, Mark and Cecil talking about the Las Vegas situation, the gravity guy. It was just a good, it was a good Mark and Cecil issue. In the next chapter, Rex is back. and is taking over coordinating all superhero activity on Earth at the request of Cecil. Also, Mark goes to visit Unversa in prison. And if you don't remember Unversa, this happened in, I believe, volume 13, although it may have been volume 14.

Matt:
Who knows,

Dave:
She

Matt:
yeah?

Dave:
attacked a power plant to try to get enough energy to save her planet. Ultimately, Mark... bests her in combat, she's imprisoned. And then Dinosaurus, in his human form, goes to the Pentagon and essentially turns himself in. Mark convinces Cecil to let Unversa out and again, solves the problem with his brain, gets her enough energy to temporarily save her planet. And that is that. Even Kate get together and have a meal. Mark and Cecil squash their beef. We get a lot of like really sort of happy resolution type stuff in this issue. Um, Cecil also shows Mark the invincible Rhianna men and, uh, Mark takes it well. Um, it seems that they're now at a pretty good understanding. And then we also get, uh, Rex slash robot having a talk with monster girl. Uh, if you remember monster girl and, uh, robot slash Rex. went into the flaxen universe at the end of one of those volumes last month and they're back and they're older monster girls de-aging seems to have been resolved maybe it was by being at the flaxen dimension maybe not we don't know yet but they are both older and very attractive now chapter five of volume 15 is really a do nothing issue There's like a welcome back party for Rex and Amanda, AKA Monster Girl. The guy Tether Tyrant, who is a recurring villain in this comic, goes on a rampage. Usually not much else that happens. Rex wants to just kind of forget what happened in the Flaxen universe. And there's not really, it's not allusion to, it's pretty much put out there that Monster Girl did something to hurt Rex while they were there, but we don't know what that is yet. We will get that eventually, it's coming up. but not in this episode of our podcast because it doesn't happen in volume 15 or 16 of the comic. To finish out volume 15, Cecil takes Mark to Las Vegas to show him that it's now a giant solar factory and essentially that what dinosaurs did was right. He knew that destroying Las Vegas was going to have this ripple effect of positivity for the human race. And that prompts Mark to kind of go back and have a very vague conversation with Eve about doing something that is going to seem or look like it's the wrong thing, but is actually going to benefit everyone and is for the greater good. And he gets sort of a soft permission to which he then goes to the Pentagon, causes the human version of Venasaurus to transform and breaks him out. They have a fight with the invincible Rhianamen. but ultimately end up escaping. This causes Cecil to go on full alert. He goes and tells Eve she'll be an accomplice if she doesn't tell him to, or if she doesn't tell him if Mark contacts her. And then this ends with Mark and dinosaurs in dinosaurs' secret base saying that they're ready to save the world. Volume 16, where we have so much happening on earth in volume 16, or in volume 15, I'm sorry. volume 16 is really the opposite of that. So Nolan on or I'm sorry, Nolan tells Alan about the deal with the Viltrumites that he and Mark made. And Alan is very, very upset. Nolan and Debbie are on Telescria. And you know, Nolan's stance here is that living with humans for decades could benefit the Viltrimites and ultimately bring peace to the universe because they could change and turn into what Nolan has turned into, which is someone that is able to love and not give into the violent tendencies that the Viltrimites have and really be a productive member of, you know, the intergalactic society that this comic exists in. We also get Oliver back at full strength. There's some funny interactions that he has with Nolan and Debbie when he sees them for the first time, as well as with Alan and his partner, Telia. Oliver moves in with Nolan and Debbie, and it's extremely awkward, primarily because Nolan and Debbie won't stop fucking.

Matt:
Hehehehe

Dave:
The end of this chapter. is Nolan going back to Allen's office. As you may or may not remember, Allen is now the leader of the Coalition of Planets. He is in charge of the safety of the entire galaxy, and they're squared up over the Scourge Virus. Allen wants to use it on Earth. Nolan is absolutely incensed at the idea of doing this, and they're ready to fight. And that's exactly what we get in the second chapter. There's a huge Nolan and Alan fight that moves from Alan's office to outside in the city of Telescria and then into sort of like low orbit around the planet. It's interrupted by Oliver. And when the dust settles on their fight, Alan tells them both the plan and Oliver ends up siding with Alan, which upsets Nolan a great deal. um I have to give Oliver some credit he makes an incredible parallel between viltrumites and humans and this is one of those times where I start to soften my stance on Oliver quite a bit. We can talk more about that later because I think one of us is probably going to bring it up when we get into our discussion but this issue ends with Nolan stumbling back into him and Debbie's apartment. Debbie doesn't really realize what's happening. She thinks he's trying to take over Talessia and is about to attack

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
him. Then she realizes what's happening. And you can see on her face that she is like, she feels bad because she questioned Nolan and she shouldn't have.

Matt:
Mmm, that's a good point.

Dave:
In chapter three, dinosaurus and Mark stop a villain. After that, the way that this villain has stopped. Batasaurus bites his fucking head off and it's amazing.

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
Just absolutely just murders this dude. It's so great. After that happens, Mark gets threatened by Rex slash robot but he leaves to go and see Eve. She's pissed and rightfully so because he hasn't come to see her since he broke down the source out of the Pentagon. Cecil shows up and Mark goes, hey, you know, actually kind of, I knew you'd be monitoring the house. I wanted to talk to you and before they could really get into anything. Alan and Oliver enter Earth's orbit because they are on their way to release the Scourge Virus. And this issue ends with Mark flying out into space. They have a quick discussion. Mark is just as pissed as Nolan was. He, Alan, and Oliver start to fight. We know that Alan can beat a Viltrumite one-on-one. Mark has no chance of beating Alan and his brother who is also part Viltrumite. However... motherfucking thrag shows up and saves Mark.

Matt:
The mustache, baby.

Dave:
In Chapter 4 Thrag explains to Alan essentially, you cannot do anything that you plan on doing. You might be able to infect me with the Scourge virus if you're lucky, but you will die. It will never make it to Earth. You can't beat me and you surely can't beat all of us. As Alan and Thrag are coming to an understanding, he gets interrupted by the Guardians of the Globe and a fight ensues because no one really knows what's happening that's on that Guardians team. They're very much in the dark about all of this. During that fight, Oliver steals the Scourge Virus and is going to attempt to release it on planet. Mark chases after him, they get into a tussle, and Oliver accidentally discharges the Scourge Virus right into Mark's face. Alan goes to check on him. And this issue ends with Mark telling Alan he's fine, and the last thing we see is Mark bleeding from his eyes and nose. So he's clearly not fine. In the next chapter, chapter five, it starts with we're on the moon in a Viltrumite ship and they're trying to save Mark. Cecil didn't know that they were there. The Guardians are there. Eve is there. Everyone is there. There's a very cool this is how it is moment between Thrag and Cecil. There's a lot of good Thrag stuff in this trade, but really enjoyed that in particular. I think it's a fantastic, you know, it's the first time these two are meeting face to face. I don't think other than Mark and Nolan, Cecil has ever met another Viltrumite and is the first interaction he has with one. It's very, very cool. I guess he's sort of Conquest, but that was like a capture after Conquest was almost dead. I

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
don't think that really counts. to help Thrag and the other Viltrumite save Mark. Thrag reluctantly allows it to happen. At this point, there's a scientist on board the ship that goes to Thrag and just says, "'Hey, Mark is a match.'" This makes Thrag extremely upset. He says to the scientist to tell no one about what he has found. I'm not sure why he says that because seconds later,

Matt:
I'm sorry.

Dave:
he pops this dude head between his hands and the guy's dead anyway. He's not gonna tell anyone. At the end of this issue, one of the Guardians of the Globe bulletproof, he decides that he's going to help Eve out with Invincible Incorporated, which is their for hire superhero service that her and Mark were doing. He starts putting on the invincible costume to help out Eve with that venture. A lot happens in chapter six as we wrap up volume 16. We're gonna pick up right where we left off in chapter five, though, and that's Bulletproof, pretending to be invincible. He goes and stops the bad guy. He comes back. He offers Eve some shoulder, kinda like, low-key says if there's anything else you need, like if you wanna have sex, maybe we can do that too, kind of a thing. Then we find out after that he's also a giant scumbag because he has like a girlfriend or something. Like this dude sucks. Not a fan of bulletproof

Matt:
That Lando Calrissian, baby. He's on that Lando Calrissian tiff.

Dave:
He is he is Also in this issue we learn what made Thrag pop that man's head and it was because Mark is the lost son of Argyle or the descendant of the lost son of Argyle he and Nolan are both true heirs to the throne of Viltrum and Thrag cannot let that happen. In fact, he says he will not allow two traitors to lead the Viltrum Empire and he goes to where Mark is being kept. He's still unconscious and he's beginning to choke Mark to death. Right as that's happening, Dinosaurus attacks Thrag, saves Mark, but he is also almost beaten to death by Thrag. He wasn't fully killed the Viltrumite ship that they're on board to place bombs all throughout the ship. Once he realized what was happening with Thragg and that they couldn't be trusted, he tied the trigger to these bombs to his heart rate. And as his heart rate slowed, more and more bombs would go off. That's the one thing that saves Dinosaurus, because Thragg leaves to go and stop the other bombs from exploding while Dinosaurus is sort of barely alive. while Thragg's distracted by this, Dinosaurus takes Mark's body, drags himself into an escape pod, and they leave the ship. This volume ends with Eve asking Cecil to go back to the moon to visit Mark, and Cecil saying, hey, we've lost contact with the ship, we don't know what's happening, we have no idea if they're even still there, and Eve is like, you send me there right now, send me to the Guardians base, I don't care, get me up there, I need to see what's going on. And then it cuts to the crash escape pod at dinosauruses a secret layer. Mark wakes up inside of the wreckage and then we see dinosaurs laying lifeless. He may be dead, he may not be dead. We won't find out until next month. And that takes us through volume 16.

Matt:
Bravo. There's a lot there.

Dave:
Yeah, there was a lot. There wasn't really a big story to tell like last

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
month with the Viltrumite War, so there was just a lot of plot threading and continuation type stuff.

Matt:
Mmm. Yeah.

Dave:
So it's at this point in the episode where we start talking about good,

Matt:
Hahaha

Dave:
bad, and hot takes. Um, you know, I've got my list in front of me. I've been doing a lot of talking. I've been talking for like 20 minutes, man. I would love for you

Matt:
Yeah, I can talk

Dave:
to

Matt:
for a

Dave:
give

Matt:
little

Dave:
me

Matt:
bit.

Dave:
a break.

Matt:
Okay. I mean, these are, these are your episodes and I come here to hear your thoughts, but, uh, okay. I'll start with my likes. Uh, pretty much if I could distill volume five of this or volume was a 15 of this down, this is Mark

Dave:
I'm

Matt:
doing

Dave:
not

Matt:
his

Dave:
sure

Matt:
best

Dave:
if

Matt:
impersonation of a Bethesda RPG. He does

Dave:
you

Matt:
deescalate

Dave:
can hear me.

Matt:
a lot of conflict. We're talking and his luck and charm and skill and reusing logic and reason and I really like that Like we've talked about that before like previous volumes The oh he would do this like once you know, he did it like once in one of those volumes like he did it like multiple times Universa he got her powered up Hopefully, I don't even remember hopefully picks up another ally like they power her up. He gets cecil on board They live allow her access to the grid. It'll shut down certain parts for 10 minutes And then she gets the power she needs and comes back, you know, or it leaves and like thanks him as like, is there something I can do, you know, whatever potential ally, the whole thing with the dude who was just like, he legitimately just powered the parent of the guy who was the gravitate or and made fun of him and laughed

Dave:
the

Matt:
at his name because he said he has a stupid name. He had a stupid name and like pretty much just parented this dude and was like, what are you doing? Like just talk this guy out of it. Grin and he sold his equipment to another, you know, scumbag. But. know, deescalated another conflict and ultimately the stuff with dinosaurs too. So like I really just liked it wasn't always just punching. It's it isn't with Invincible.

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
I love I love a good punching, but like there's more to

Dave:
Same.

Matt:
that character than that. There was a I love Kirkman just being aware in the crossover. I know he meant this, but it's not probably meant but issue 81 there's a little A cop that looked very similar to Rick Grimes. And I just thought that was funny. That was just something I wanted to throw

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
in there. Maybe there's a little Shane and Rick Grimes in there and issue 81. I really

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
liked that. Um, the creepy old man in me, I'm just going to say a grownup monster girl. Nuff said, don't need to go into that. We'll just let that one be. Uh, um, this wasn't also an, yeah, especially, uh, those oversize, like hardcovers, no pun intended. We're just gonna keep, we're gonna move on from that. So, uh, the Inge justifies the means. Mark with Dinosaurus, how he kind of just...

Dave:
Mm-hmm

Matt:
I liked how you said it was like soft permission from Eve. It's kind of like when I go make a big purchase, like, oh, you don't care if I go and buy a PlayStation, dude, or something, you know? Like, he just went off and like, she's like, all right, like, I guess, and like, this dude comes back. Uh, like,

Dave:
And that was such a big thing. I mean,

Matt:
it was a huge thing. Like,

Dave:
that changed the perception of Mark

Matt:
Well,

Dave:
on the entire planet.

Matt:
he really should have like, I, he should have disclosed that to Eve. That's not a PlayStation purchase. Like that's like, Oh, your house is under surveillance. Probably her parents' house was under surveillance as well too. Like that doesn't just affect you. That affects a lot of people. Uh, and I think Eve is,

Dave:
but...

Matt:
Eve would

Dave:
Go ahead,

Matt:
get

Dave:
sorry.

Matt:
it. What's what? No, no. What's your counterpoint? Cause I think Eve would get it and understand.

Dave:
think she would too but if I'm remembering correctly Mark said he wasn't gonna give her all the details to protect her from any sort of like

Matt:
That's true.

Dave:
Cecil type ramifications so I

Matt:
That's

Dave:
think

Matt:
dead

Dave:
that

Matt:
is true.

Dave:
while he was a little misguided He was doing what he thought was the right thing in that moment.

Matt:
Yeah. Kirkman again, there's layers to this, man. He thinks through this stuff. There's layers to

Dave:
Yes.

Matt:
this. It's just, you know, stuff like that. I forgot about that, but he did say that. So, and then Alan, Alan and the scourge virus is another like kind of end justifies the means thing. Like you brought it up, but the virus didn't just kill Viltrumites. It could potentially

Dave:
Yes, that's true. I should have mentioned that. Sorry.

Matt:
No, I don't want to cut you off. You're on a roll, but like, yeah, like it's one thing is just wipe out those 32 Viltrumites, but you potentially could wipe out the whole human population. And, uh, I really liked the point that Eve brought up about how, like, Anissa, that, that female Viltrumite was saying like similar things to like what Alan was like, Oh, this is going to make everything better. If you just fall in line, like everything.

Dave:
Mm-hmm.

Matt:
You know, it'll all just be glorious and prosperous for everyone. Like it, I really liked that connection as well too. Uh, one of my, one of my last positives, I don't know his first name, but I'm going to call him Matt Thrag because he's like one of your,

Dave:
He

Matt:
uh,

Dave:
only has

Matt:
general.

Dave:
he is only frag

Matt:
No, his, his name rhymes with one of your former supervisors at a certain company. Matt Thrag.

Dave:
None of the pure-blooded

Matt:
Don't

Dave:
Viltrimites

Matt:
have names.

Dave:
have two names.

Matt:
Yeah,

Dave:
They all

Matt:
it's just like.

Dave:
have a singular name.

Matt:
Yeah,

Dave:
Nolan,

Matt:
it's true.

Dave:
Conquest, Thrag, Anissa. They're one-name people.

Matt:
They are one name people. Um, I really liked his explanation of everything. Uh, he, he's the Hulk man. He wants to be left alone. He wants him and his people to be left

Dave:
Mm.

Matt:
alone.

Dave:
Heh heh

Matt:
Do

Dave:
heh.

Matt:
we know what their ultimate, do we know what their ultimate goals are? No, I think we know what their goals are, but we don't know for sure. Do they just

Dave:
kinda

Matt:
truly

Dave:
do.

Matt:
want to be left

Dave:
I mean

Matt:
alone?

Dave:
it.

Matt:
They want to repopulate.

Dave:
Yeah,

Matt:
Are

Dave:
that's

Matt:
they

Dave:
their

Matt:
going?

Dave:
goal. Your goal is to get back to strength.

Matt:
But are they then going to continue their conquest throughout the universe? That ultimate goal, do

Dave:
Right.

Matt:
we know

Dave:
We'll

Matt:
that

Dave:
see.

Matt:
for

Dave:
And

Matt:
sure?

Dave:
that is the gamble that Mark and Nolan were forced to take, was that they have to believe that all of that time raising children and family on Earth will impact the rest of the Viltrimites the way that it impacted Nolan. Because if it doesn't, yeah, I think what you said is what happens. They just resume

Matt:
I'm out.

Dave:
conquest of the entire galaxy.

Matt:
Did you ever study the concept of mad in like high school or middle school? Do you remember that concept in like, uh,

Dave:
I don't

Matt:
political

Dave:
think so.

Matt:
science, mutually assured destruction. It reminded me of that,

Dave:
Oh yeah.

Matt:
that con mad. That's what it's called. I was reading it. It's like that whole, that whole proposition we're at, like, do you just wipe them out now? We're going to go to war. We're just all going to kill each other. Or you can let us repopulate know that we're here. I also know you have the scourge virus and can wipe me out. So that's like the concept of mad, like, We're not going to do anything because we know that we can just wipe. We can just kill each other, but it just took me back to middle school and my old history days with general Thrag, but I, he.

Dave:
And this is the beauty of the Viltrimites being the main protagonist in this comic is that they are such an overwhelming

Matt:
Talk to me.

Dave:
and unstoppable force. You get so many situations where there seems to be no good outcome. and our characters are forced to make impossible decisions. And, you know, in this set of two trades, volume 15 and 16 discussion, not only have we just recently allowed the Viltrumites to infiltrate the Earth, and Mark and Nolan have no way of knowing where any of them are, what they're doing, now they're forced to align with them. Mark is in a situation, he has to accept help from Thrag because he was going to lose that fight with Alan and Oliver.

Matt:
Oh yeah.

Dave:
Thrag is the only one that stopped the Scourge virus from being released. Then they have to turn to the Viltrumites for help in saving Mark because of what Oliver did with the Scourge virus by accidentally spraying it in his face. At the same time, the thing that is helping you in the moment is the thing that could, in five, 10, 15, or 20 years, kill every living thing on the planet. The weight of that is incredible.

Matt:
Yeah. No, that's a... I don't know. Good stuff. That's about

Dave:
Do you

Matt:
all the

Dave:
have

Matt:
likes,

Dave:
more? Okay, that's all your that's

Matt:
likes

Dave:
your good.

Matt:
the end.

Dave:
Okay.

Matt:
That's all, that's all my, the only other like was just like

Dave:
Alright.

Matt:
a funny joke. Like when a bulletproof or whatever took over Mark's mantle. And he also did the invincible pose. I was going to

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
text you that day and say, like, this is the only race swap I actually like, and I want to get the one of Mark and the one of him together. Like I was going to say, that's the only race swap I can get on board with. But I like that.

Dave:
I like that too. When I got to that splash page, I also was like, I should tell Matt about this, but I knew we were going to talk about it

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
today.

Matt:
You.

Dave:
So this comic, there are so many little touches. You talked about it already, like the Rick Grimes,

Matt:
Yeah, dude,

Dave:
like

Matt:
it's

Dave:
quote

Matt:
awesome.

Dave:
unquote, guest appearance. So there's also, it was in volume 15. where Mark and Eve are at Immortal and Duplicate's house.

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
And Immortal is talking about like his, some of his past lives or whatever. And you get like flashbacks. And in one of those, you see that he actually was Abraham Lincoln.

Matt:
Yeah, yeah, I forgot

Dave:
Like

Matt:
about that.

Dave:
Immortal was Abraham

Matt:
OK.

Dave:
Lincoln and freed the slaves. Like that was a, like, there's just like little things like that where you're just like. It's just hard to not smile sometimes when you're reading this comic because Kirkman does so much cool stuff like that

Matt:
That makes so much more sense. Cause

Dave:
Um.

Matt:
at the dinner table, he was talking about like John Will's booth or something. I don't know. He was talking about it being

Dave:
Yes.

Matt:
Abraham Lincoln and I didn't, I was like, that's weird, but yeah. Okay. I missed that panel. So yeah, that makes sense.

Dave:
Yeah. And there's another, another incense of this in volume 15. It's, it's when Mark goes to pick up his comics and Kirkman

Matt:
Damn

Dave:
is

Matt:
it.

Dave:
making fun of himself when he talks about how science dog was on time for like a stretch or whatever. They also take some shots at Marvel and DC for constantly doing relaunches. Um, I just, I love that kind of stuff. Uh, I say this every month, but the Mark and Eve relationship is so well written. I'm not talking about their romantic, the good stuff. It's also the difficult conversations that they have. And just like the way that there's such a good support for each other, they're just, it's such a well-written adult relationship that you rarely get in a superhero comic. It's such an interesting contrast to the really over the top, violent, gory fights that we get, like the true superhero-y stuff. And we also get like this really great love story woven in between some of those things. I just, I eat that up. And on that same note, the Nolan and Debbie reconnection is another high note for me in this. I just, I love Nolan. I think they're great together too. So I loved seeing all of that. There's so much funny stuff with them, like on the ship going back to Telstra and like, the crew keeps walking in on Nolan taking her to pound

Matt:
to

Dave:
town.

Matt:
sn- hehehehe

Dave:
She's like so mad about it because like the door doesn't lock, but like she gives in every time because she's just DTF the same way that he is. They're just like two teenagers going at it. I just love it. I love all of that stuff. There's also a bunch of funny stuff with like Alan and Telia, his partner and all the wild monkey sex they have that Oliver stuck to be around. Like,

Matt:
He's like, poor Oliver. Can't get a night's sleep.

Dave:
yeah, there's just a, There's a lot of sex in volume 15

Matt:
Yeah, there is.

Dave:
and 16 for that matter I've been hard on Oliver

Matt:
You

Dave:
this

Matt:
shouldn't

Dave:
entire time every month

Matt:
lead with that after talking about sex. It's hard on Al. I'm sorry.

Dave:
Come on, man. He's still a kid.

Matt:
I don't know.

Dave:
He's finally interesting. He's finally doing things at an adult level to where I'm starting to get on board with Oliver. However, he's still a massive piece of shit in Chapter four of volume 16 because he almost kills Mark

Matt:
Exactly.

Dave:
with the

Matt:
All

Dave:
scourge

Matt:
that good

Dave:
virus.

Matt:
work. All that good work we're putting in together.

Dave:
But this is the turning point for Oliver and I. I'm on board with Oliver pretty much the rest of the series. And then my last, my last thing for the good is the aftermath of the Viltrumite War. We got sort of a Viltrumite War epilogue last month in volume 14, but the domino effect of the Viltrumite War is still felt throughout these 12 issues that we just read. And I think that it's such a good thing. to allow that aftermath, not just to breathe, but to really help you rethread the next two to three years of plot for this comic. It gives a weight to the resolution that we got in volume 14. And it also respects that at the end of a war, there's lasting consequence for everyone involved. And it's gonna ripple through this comic for a while

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
now. And again, it's just... Like it's the it's the masterful writing and architecting of Robert Kirkman on display month in and month out. There's just another one of those things that I just I just gush over this comic I can't help myself, but

Matt:
I mean, that's a really

Dave:
I really

Matt:
good point.

Dave:
appreciated that.

Matt:
That's a really good

Dave:
Good.

Matt:
point. It took a trade or two. And it wasn't all BS. It was good writing. But Marvel or DC, they have an event. And then it's like, funeral for a friend, one shot. And it's 48 pages. And then

Dave:
Yep.

Matt:
everything's wrapped up. And it's like, OK, now we're onto the next thing. It's like, no. If these events matter, they have some lasting effect on the characters. So yeah, that

Dave:
Yes.

Matt:
was a really good point. I didn't even think of that.

Dave:
But it's onto the bad now. I only have two.

Matt:
I don't have a lot at all. So, I mean, my

Dave:
I'll

Matt:
two

Dave:
get

Matt:
were,

Dave:
my two out of the way.

Matt:
okay, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah,

Dave:
Yeah, so

Matt:
I've struggled for this, but go ahead.

Dave:
I did too. But I'd still I found I was able to find one was easy. Guided view on comics ology was absolute trash this month.

Matt:
My man went meta. He went meta. He went outside.

Dave:
Volume 15 and 16, both multiple times in both issue or both trades. I had really bad cropping problems where it was cropping out dialogue. There was one point where I actually had skipped panels happening as I was tapping forward. Amazon, fix your shit. This isn't even a bad thing about invincible, but it did detract from my enjoying of the comic. So it goes, it gets into the podcast conversation because of that. Uh, and then the other, this one, I debated on whether or not this was actually something that was for the bad, but I do think that volume 16, when I pull myself out and look at the whole of volume 16, it's a story or a collection of stories where you really have a hard time picking a side. even Mark is called into question because of his

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
alignment with dinosaurs. And again, I don't I don't think that it's bad. But it was uncomfortable.

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
It's rare in this comic that you don't know what side you're on. And this was one where you kind of pinballed back and forth. And ironically enough, the person in this trade that has the least amount of questionable time or has, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to be questioning them about in terms of motive, character, actions, decision, is Nolan. He's the only guy that's on the straight and narrow and always trying to do the right thing for the entirety of volume 16. And I think that that's crazy. From where we started with Nolan to be

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
here today going, he's the only dude doing the right thing every chance he gets. Again, that's not bad. That's actually incredible. But the bad is like, this was an uncomfortable trade because everyone kind of sucked in one way or another

Matt:
Yeah,

Dave:
throughout the trade.

Matt:
that's true. So

Dave:
Those

Matt:
the.

Dave:
are my two bad. And again, that second bad is like debatable.

Matt:
No, that's a good talking point. So like, no BS. Like, you're probably not gonna see this. I wanna see if I can have this come through. I was gonna send you this

Dave:
I can't

Matt:
on

Dave:
see

Matt:
Saturday.

Dave:
that at all.

Matt:
I was gonna send you this on Saturday, but pretty

Dave:
What am

Matt:
much

Dave:
I looking

Matt:
it was,

Dave:
at?

Matt:
in one of the digital issues, cause I was reading one of them in bed, it was like, an ad for Comixology. It's like, read your comics everywhere. And I was gonna text you and be like, dude, remember these days? Remember how good this was? And then you, that was literally one of your negative points. That's hilarious. We're so in sync in all things. We're so

Dave:
I love

Matt:
in

Dave:
you

Matt:
sync.

Dave:
too.

Matt:
My twos are definitely a stretch. My bads are definitely a stretch. I didn't love Alan is kind of like the government stooge. I get it. I understand like that role of leadership that was stressed on him, but like he knows all these people and like he has some inherent trust with. Nolan, like by God, you broke the man. If he was such a criminal, you would have let him get executed by the Viltrumites and their

Dave:
Mm-hmm.

Matt:
ridiculous wacky ways, which they were trying to kill him. But like, these are your buddies and your friends. Like you should be able to have a conversation with them. And just like how quickly he just like turned to like every man, like Johnny military follow orders. Like I get it. Cause he's in that position of authority, but that just kind of sucks. Like I expect a little bit more out of him.

Dave:
I think that Thrag really did a great job of getting to Alan when they were talking about the Scourge

Matt:
Yeah,

Dave:
pirates

Matt:
he caught

Dave:
when they

Matt:
him

Dave:
were over

Matt:
out.

Dave:
the planet. He was like, you would have seen all this coming if you weren't reacting instead of planning

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
and you're, it's obvious that you're new in your position and you know, you're not doing the right thing. Like you got, you, you got embarrassed buddy.

Matt:
My man was like, my fries are cold. Let me talk to your manager. Like that's what he did. That's what he did.

Dave:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Matt:
He pulled the manager card. I don't want to talk to you. We're not talking about the extended ward. Let me talk to your manager. Like you pulled that card out on him. Just dismantled that man through linguistics. I was a little irritated in a good way. It was still bad and I didn't like it. I want to know what happened in this dimension cause I do not remember this at all. between Monster Girl

Dave:
Oh,

Matt:
and Erection,

Dave:
Rex and Monster

Matt:
Monster

Dave:
and

Matt:
Girl,

Dave:
yeah.

Matt:
I need to know what's happening. Like we got two

Dave:
You

Matt:
trades.

Dave:
will.

Matt:
I can't, we can't get to the end of this. Like I'm pretty, pretty

Dave:
Nope,

Matt:
upset about that. But...

Dave:
you can't. And you'll understand why when we get to it.

Matt:
Okay.

Dave:
But that explanation has to be moved later in the comic because

Matt:
Okay.

Dave:
of what the third act of the comic really is and Rex and Amanda's role in what that will be. And it's tied directly into the time they spent in the Flaxen dimension. And if Kirkman tells us now, the timing's not gonna be right. But we're getting it.

Matt:
Alright,

Dave:
And

Matt:
alright. I'll trust you.

Dave:
it sets up the third act of the comic.

Matt:
Speaking of trusting you, my last did not like is I don't like that I can't text you. I'll add that as my medal one. Cause like you've

Dave:
Hahaha

Matt:
been talking this whole time about like dinosaurs, and I, I truly like do not remember what happened until they flew to Las Vegas and I heard Las Vegas. I was like, Oh no, I remember. I got to remember that. I was like, Oh

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
no, that's going to text you like texting the page flip. Like, Oh no. Uh, but yeah, that's my last one. Hot takes

Dave:
I'd

Matt:
interesting

Dave:
like to say,

Matt:
stuff. Yeah, go ahead.

Dave:
not only did I mention that the dinosaur's reckoning was coming, I also mentioned, I don't know if it was two episodes ago or three episodes ago, that there were going to be times coming up where we were not going to like Alan.

Matt:
You did say that, yeah. That was like early, because I was like, oh,

Dave:
And we've

Matt:
Alan

Dave:
got

Matt:
is

Dave:
to

Matt:
so

Dave:
it.

Matt:
great. I was

Dave:
Yes.

Matt:
like, that's like our second episode. I was like, Alan's the best. You're like,

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
there's a point where you're not going to like him.

Dave:
Hahaha.

Matt:
So you're right. You said something like that. You're like, yeah, he's kind of. Uh, yeah. So.

Dave:
Go ahead with your hot takes. I got I have three and I want you to go first

Matt:
Well, I think I have two now. You knocked

Dave:
Okay.

Matt:
out like, one was the Robert Kirkman self-awareness, like the comic shop

Dave:
Oh,

Matt:
talk.

Dave:
sorry.

Matt:
No, no, it's good. No,

Dave:
Why's

Matt:
it

Dave:
that

Matt:
was

Dave:
a

Matt:
just

Dave:
hot

Matt:
like,

Dave:
cake?

Matt:
no, it's just like an interesting point. Like, I don't know where it fits,

Dave:
Okay.

Matt:
but

Dave:
Got

Matt:
like

Dave:
it. Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah.

Matt:
hot

Dave:
It didn't

Matt:
take

Dave:
fit

Matt:
or like

Dave:
the other

Matt:
whatever.

Dave:
two sections. So

Matt:
Yeah,

Dave:
it goes in this

Matt:
like

Dave:
one. Yeah, I

Matt:
I

Dave:
get

Matt:
liked

Dave:
it.

Matt:
it,

Dave:
Yeah. Makes

Matt:
but

Dave:
sense.

Matt:
like it's not

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
whatever.

Dave:
Makes sense.

Matt:
It's just Robert Kirkman self-awareness

Dave:
I'm with it.

Matt:
keeping us in all the time. I mean, I guess it's a hot take for me. Oliver sucks now. I don't like him. He just

Dave:
Whoa.

Matt:
almost just, he almost just killed his brother because he's impulsive as hell. Like I, that I was okay with him up until that point. And then I'm like, dude, like you,

Dave:
You know why I'm on board now? You know

Matt:
why?

Dave:
why, right?

Matt:
No.

Dave:
Well, you can finish your thought.

Matt:
No, I mean, that was pretty much it. It was just like... He is... I don't, it's almost like his logic and like kind of his logic, I guess, is sound and this whole inch justifies the mean thing. But he's like ultra like anti-human. And I, and I'm like, I don't know why, like you were like super xenophobic against the humans and I really don't get it. And you've lived here and like this, he Kirkman again, he says it, but he's like outside of like my mother and like, these other handful of people, I can care less about this entire race. Buddy, you haven't even had any opportunity to interact with this other race. You've interacted with, we don't see the everyday, we don't see Oliver going to the grocery store or going to Buckbees or whatever, but my assumption is he's not having much interaction with humans outside of his family. And it's just like, you've just written this entire race of people off. So, okay, yeah, let's just go use this. giant nuclear bomb and wipe everyone out and oh yeah i'll just use it on my brother on accident not even think about that like dude what are you doing like you gotta i don't know

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
he doesn't trust any counsel from his brother or his father or like anyone else it's just like i don't know I guess.

Dave:
which is kind of where he's at. Like he's impulsive teenager, but fastly getting to adulthood because of his unique DNA. The reason why I'm turning the page on Oliver is because of his stance on the human race. And not, I...

Matt:
Very funny.

Dave:
I called it out, but I said he was still a pile of shit in chapter four of volume 16, which is everything you just said about using the scourge virus and not listening to reason. However, the parallels that he draws between the Viltrumites and the humans spot on.

Matt:
Just...

Dave:
Spot on. Humans are uncaring. They're constantly fighting with each other. They're selfish. They're violent. They're not inherently good to him based on everything that he knows of other planets, his own people. Humans are not nearly as evolved as so many other types of beings in the universe, and he's not wrong. He actually makes a comment about how ridiculous it is that they're still fighting each other in wars. Entire planets are united and they work together for their planet and there's interplanetary conflict but there is not intraplanetary conflict like there is on Earth with the humans. I just think that's really interesting.

Matt:
everything perfectly balanced. That's what you wanted to do. Uh, Dinosaur's was right. Dinosaur's was right.

Dave:
He sure was.

Matt:
I mean, enough said. How does that make you feel? Kinda doesn't make me feel good, but he's right. So it is what it is. So, yep.

Dave:
He's

Matt:
That's

Dave:
a difficult

Matt:
it.

Dave:
character in this comic. He's not really an antagonist, but the things that he does end

Matt:
They're

Dave:
up being

Matt:
so extreme.

Dave:
antagonistic to some people. Yes.

Matt:
Yeah, they're so extreme.

Dave:
You know, he's just a very, it's just a very interesting character. And like, it's such a weird decision to like make him be a T-Rex.

Matt:
I like that he's like

Dave:
Like

Matt:
super

Dave:
he's, why

Matt:
smart

Dave:
is he,

Matt:
though.

Dave:
why

Matt:
He's

Dave:
does he

Matt:
a

Dave:
turn

Matt:
giant

Dave:
into

Matt:
T-Rex.

Dave:
a dinosaur?

Matt:
He's super smart. I love it.

Dave:
Yeah. Like it's just such a weird thing. I love it.

Matt:
You're up.

Dave:
Is that it for yours

Matt:
Yeah, that's

Dave:
for your

Matt:
it.

Dave:
hot takes

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
and interesting points? Okay. I have three like I said number one And I don't it's not often that I'm gonna take Ryan Otley to the mat And maybe he was told to do this. I don't know But the way he draws overweight Eve is so disrespectful Like, we could draw her to be less like frumpy and awful looking. It's disrespectful, make her slim thick. I don't believe that if she gained all that weight, she still wouldn't be just as attractive, but it's very obvious that there are times that he is adding weight to her face or... drawing her at an angle that is like intentionally unflattering. I don't understand why that was done. I really don't. Because there are other times throughout the course of these two trades, where he does draw her in a lot more flattering way with extra body weight.

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
And that inconsistency is really off-putting for me. I don't know why.

Matt:
Cause you like Slimmy, if you just don't say...

Dave:
I just thought that was a little controversial. Wanted to bring that up.

Matt:
It's a little controversial, especially in these times. Hey man, I'm ready to trade my even for some Monster Girl. I'm ready to get that 20, the 2024 model. I want the 2024

Dave:
Come on, man.

Matt:
model now. Let's trade it up, trade it in.

Dave:
Nah. I ride with Eve. Um, another hot take, and I mentioned this already a little bit, but when it comes to the scourge virus, no one is right. But Nolan, even Mark gets it wrong. And this is why I have this in my hot takes because Mark's motivation to stop Alan and Oliver and not release the scourge virus is because he wants to save the humans. Nolan's reason is because he wants to rehabilitate the Viltrumites. And I think that Nolan's the writer of the two. I think Mark is still, that's a little bit

Matt:
His

Dave:
of an

Matt:
focus

Dave:
immature

Matt:
is off.

Dave:
take from Mark.

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
Yeah. And there's a lot of that. I think there's a lot of that in these two volumes where Mark is. Every he's trying to do less with his fists. You know, he's doing more thinking, more deescalation, but he still doesn't quite get it right. There's still some youthful mistakes that happen. I think. I don't know if it was intentionally written this way, but I think that Mark just going, oh no, what about the humans is kind of, there's a bigger picture here and Nolan got it and I don't think Mark did. That's why I have it in my hot take.

Matt:
Okay.

Dave:
My last hot take, and I know you're gonna, I know you're gonna give me shit for this one. post-Villager Might War. Kinda like Thragg.

Matt:
Nah dude, why would I give you shit for that? I'm literally

Dave:
because

Matt:
rocking the mustache. I'm all for Thrag.

Dave:
I know,

Matt:
I'm

Dave:
I know.

Matt:
team Thrag all day. Matt

Dave:
But

Matt:
Thrag

Dave:
the dude

Matt:
baby.

Dave:
just,

Matt:
Matt Thrag.

Dave:
he has a way of laying things out so directly and without wavering. I just respect the style of communication coming from Thrag. But he's also still such a jerk because he tried to choke Mark and kill him. But I don't know. Kind of like Thrag. I hate that I do. And I know things that he's gonna do before the end of this comic. And I'm already mad about it, just thinking about it. I'm gonna hate the dude by the end of this whole thing. But right now, I don't know, man, I'm kind of digging him.

Matt:
It's kind of like, I think it's because you see, when you hear whispers of the Viltrumites, you just hear about how vicious they are in the panels you see. You see all the violence and everything that they can cause and the damage and destruction. But then you hear him and it's like, okay, behind all this like might and furosity is like there's intelligence and tactfulness and the well thought out and planning. and being strategic and like the logic is sound and why he's doing what he's doing. Kind of like dinosaurs but ramped up to like 11, you know, like it's just

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
he's not wrong.

Dave:
Well

Matt:
Like

Dave:
said.

Matt:
everything he's doing is for his

Dave:
Right.

Matt:
people. It's like Zod, if Zod was written well, you know, like he's doing it for his people. So yeah, dude, I'm all it is. That is a hot take. Especially after him. I'll give you hot take status because like after he's about to choke out mark and kill him Uh, yeah, it's that was the only thing i'm like, oh come on thrag but other than that

Dave:
Yeah. I was rooting for him to not be a total piece of shit at least once

Matt:
Yeah.

Dave:
Like get a whole get through a whole trade without doing anything that I'm like, man, you suck But

Matt:
none of them can

Dave:
we are

Matt:
though.

Dave:
we are close Yeah,

Matt:
Cecil,

Dave:
none of them can

Matt:
I was rooting for Cecil was doing real good there for a second

Dave:
Yeah

Matt:
and then you got the invincible every anime and I'm like Cecil we got to do the white room thing again. Like luckily Mark

Dave:
Yeah.

Matt:
reacted like an adult but I'm like here we go again with this like I don't Good stuff.

Dave:
Yeah. So if my memory serves, when we do this next month for volumes 17 and 18, we're gonna be talking about anissa.

Matt:
this.

Dave:
I know you know what that means.

Matt:
Yeah, I remember that very vaguely. I remember

Dave:
Yeah,

Matt:
the va- that's

Dave:
so

Matt:
definitely something I remember.

Dave:
I'm, I'm almost positive it's going to be next month, but I could be it might be the month after but it's coming up. It's either if it's not next month, it's the month after that. And I think it's about time to wrap this thing up.

Matt:
I think so.

Dave:
So I'm going to do this. Faster than I've ever done it before in the description of the episode, you're going to have our Twitter handles. You're going to have my threads handle. Follow us there. We're talking about comics. We'd love to have you follow us. We'll follow you back. Um, interact with us, talk about the podcast, share with a friend, send someone a link to the episode. If you liked this episode, get one more person listening to us. That just helps us keep doing the podcast. The more we grow. the more we can do with it. We'd really appreciate your help there if you like what you see or hear and if you're into what we're doing. With that being said, we'll be back, I don't know in how many days, because these Invincible episodes drop in between our bi-weekly episodes. So we'll see you in a little bit with something new. And until then, my name is Dave.

Matt:
And I'm Matt.

Dave:
Take care of yourselves everybody.

Matt:
Peace.

Comic Dudes With Attitudes

66: Invincible Pt 8: 🦎 Dinosaurus, The Viltrumite War Fallout, and More!

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