Is this the "final" Snyderverse movie? Everything DC is confusing when it comes to their movie universe and plans to keep things connected, and The Flash doesn't really do anything to change all that. Does Michael Keaton reprising his role as Batman save this thing? No. What about introducing Supergirl to the big screen? Not really.
It's not all bad, though, and in this episode we talk about everything we liked (and didn't) about Ezra Miller's Flash.
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Show notes include some AI generated content
Is this the "final" Snyderverse movie? Everything DC is confusing when it comes to their movie universe and plans to keep things connected, and The Flash doesn't really do anything to change all that. Does Michael Keaton reprising his role as Batman save this thing? No. What about introducing Supergirl to the big screen? Not really.
It's not all bad, though, and in this episode we talk about everything we liked (and didn't) about Ezra Miller's Flash.
Follow our Instagram:
@comicdudespodcast
Follow our Tiktok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@comicdudeswithattitudes
Follow us on Twitter:
@Dave_xBT817x
@Warden43tk
@NuclearIsLonely
Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content
Dave:
Just like we'd get bored if every new person we met was exactly the same, not every superhero movie has to be a comedy too. This is one of the many, many pitfalls of The Flash. We're gonna get into it today. We are the comic dudes, Matt and Dave, you all know us, or maybe you don't, maybe this is your first time listening to us, but it is welcome aboard. Generally speaking, we talk about comics and comic book related things. I typically am a bit of a downer. I have a feeling this episode Matt and I are both going to have some negative opinions about this Flash movie with Ezra Miller that is set in the Snyderverse. I guess our last Snyderverse movie.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
I tried if you've listened to the podcast before When we do invincible so we're rereading invincible for the 20th anniversary this year We've started now I do like a story recap like the main story beats when we when we do an invincible episode and I really tried I tried to do one for this movie And boy, I just couldn't bring myself to do it I do have I Have a bit of an opening I guess it's an opening statement. It's also a bit of a recap. I'm just gonna... I'm gonna speak this, and then we'll get into our discussion.
Matt:
Speak it into existence, brother. Do it. Do it.
Dave:
Despite using 4, 5, maybe 6 directors, I'm not sure, the Flash still managed to be the worst superhero box office flop in history. From the opening scene of the movie, retreated to what will ultimately be uninspired MCU wannabe dialogue set inside and next to horrendous CG set pieces and characters. For almost 3 hours. As much as I would love to provide a story recap, the plot of this movie is needlessly chaotic yet somehow also boring. I couldn't put forth that kind of an effort even if I wanted to. It's rare a superhero movie is this upsetting to watch, and the last time I felt this insulted was on March 25th, 2016. For those unaware, that was the day Batman vs Superman came out. And honestly...
Matt:
OOF
Dave:
We'd all be better off if Barry had run backwards through time to prevent that movie from ever being made, thus avoiding this flash movie altogether.
Matt:
That is an opening salvo, ladies and gentlemen. That is how you do it. That is impressive. The Flash, man. Are we talking good, bad, ugly? I mean, do we? I mean, oh.
Dave:
I think we should do good, bad, and I guess ugly slash controversial. That's how
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
I've bucketed my thoughts. However, if you do want to give, if you want to give like a high level,
Matt:
Yeah, like, I mean, I'm not...
Dave:
about the, I mean, I feel like at this
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
point, if you haven't seen the movie yet, you're probably not going to, it's not on streaming yet. And to be clear to everyone listening or watching, we did not see this in the theater. I was bamboozled into paying $25. for a digital copy of this movie because Matt saw that it was available digitally. And he was like, man, let's watch it and do a podcast about it. So I, I gave up $25 and three hours of not just my life, but my girlfriend's life as well, because that poor girl sat and watched this movie with me too. Honestly, you owe her an apology.
Matt:
That's awesome. I'll give her a call. I'll shoot her a text message. So
Dave:
All right.
Matt:
very, very high level. Like I'm not... Dave is the master of like the breakdown of the book or the plots, but very high level. The Flash played by Ezra Miller is going back in time to... his mother is ultimately murdered. And he's going back and trying to reverse that. He has been told, one of my, the best conversations is the one with Bruce Wayne played by Ben Affleck and is like telling him like, dude, like don't go back in the past, don't change things. But he goes and does it anyway. From there, I mean, from there he runs into Batman played by Michael Keaton and also a super girl character played by Sasha Kelly. And they're trying to. save the world because where Barry goes back to it's back to 2013 right before Man of Steel. I guess it's I thought it was 2013 but it might be 2016 whatever before Man of Steel when Zod comes down and now he's going to destroy the world and everything. So they kind of create their own little Justice League and they're trying to stop that. Ultimately what ends up coming what end up happening towards that climactic battle, kind of towards the end of the movie, and I've really gone over things, it's pretty much they're kind of like canon events that are going to happen. And no matter what Barry does, you know, he has to experience some kind of tragedy. A lesson is learned, a villain is defeated. And at the end of the day, things kind of get put back to where they are. Barry has to allow his mother to be killed in order to kind of set things right. But since he's tampered with the past. there are some differences moving forward. That's pretty much my kind of like high level synopsis of this movie. It really isn't, and I'm not good at this, but it really isn't that overly complicated. Like that is pretty much what the movie is about.
Dave:
I'll be honest for anyone that is listening to this podcast and didn't see the movie. As someone who did see the movie, Matt's recounting of events is not any clearer than the movie itself.
Matt:
Hahahaha
Dave:
But he's just saved you three hours, so you're welcome.
Matt:
and $25.
Dave:
And $25. Unless you wait for it to be on max and then we just saved you three hours, maybe not the $25.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
I mean, there were some things about this movie that I liked.
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
I
Matt:
I
Dave:
actually have five
Matt:
agree.
Dave:
bullet points, things that I liked in the movie. So I did have to really work for these five. It was difficult to find. And it's taking everything in my power to not just unleash the venom that has been just pent up in me for the last week. I watched this movie literally a week ago today.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
But man, let's talk about things we liked, I guess.
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
Batman being in the movie was cool. I liked,
Matt:
Michael Keaton.
Dave:
well, yeah, the Michael Keaton Batman, obviously, but I have more to say about that later. The Ben Affleck Batman, I actually like Ben Affleck as Batman and I do
Matt:
Thank
Dave:
kind
Matt:
you.
Dave:
of like the Snyderverse. So, you know, I liked seeing that version of Batman back. I thought it was really cool to get to see how Barry phases through walls and stuff. Like that was that was actually a pretty badass use of the CG in this movie. And I think. And I don't know when this started, I guess it was in one of those awful 20th century Fox X-Men movies with the Quicksilver, like slow running scene.
Matt:
Yeah...
Dave:
It's turned into like, like that's like an art
Matt:
The
Dave:
form
Matt:
thing
Dave:
now in
Matt:
now.
Dave:
the superhero movie. And they do this in the flash to death. but it was nice to get a different version of that type of a thing with the phasing through walls. I thought that was pretty cool. When the younger version of Barry, the 18 year old Barry puts on the flash costume for the first time out of the ring, I thought that was cool getting to see how the ring and the suit works. It's one thing to hear it in the comics or see it in the comics, but to get it fully rendered in a movie like with. computer graphics and whatnot, that was really... I liked the Flash in the comics. The Flash
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
is a cool
Matt:
yeah.
Dave:
character. So I got to see some stuff that I've always thought was, you know, really fun or interesting and getting to see it on the biggest screen in my house, not necessarily the big screen movie theater screen, but still cool. I did write down as a good thing, the creation of the multiverse, But... At the end of the movie... I was off of that. But what I saw,
Matt:
The first hour and a half you were
Dave:
when
Matt:
in.
Dave:
I first saw it, I was like, hell yeah, maybe
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
we're gonna do something interesting here. You know, give me something, don't kill the Snyderverse. And then just let it be its own thing. And then we're on a different, you know, we're in a different multiverse type of a thing for whatever the James Gunn reboot was gonna be. But ultimately that ended up not being that great. And then. This one, I guess this is sort of good and bad. As far as parts of the movie that were sort of, they felt like they carried some weight. There was a little bit of emotion or some heaviness to it. Barry fixing the timeline was I think the only part of this film that really made me care at all about what was happening. Everything else was just sort of along for the ride.
Matt:
The grocery store scene is that you're talking about where that scene
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
or yeah,
Dave:
yeah, that's where he
Matt:
that
Dave:
fixes
Matt:
was a great
Dave:
it.
Matt:
scene.
Dave:
Yeah, yeah,
Matt:
Great scene.
Dave:
yeah. And you know, honestly, I think despite the extracurricular issues that Ezra Miller has been involved in,
Matt:
Yes.
Dave:
I do truly believe that they are a very talented actor. And there were some parts in this movie where Ezra Miller did show that skill. That was the... the most impressive part of what Ezra Miller can do as an actor. Um, and then I had one other kind of good thing, which, uh, was the Michael Keaton Batman making a dig on Superman. I like that. Any, any chance we get to poke fun at Superman, I'm on board with that kind of stuff.
Matt:
You wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts, Dave.
Dave:
Heheheheheheheheh
Matt:
Let's get nuts. So my good Michael Keaton Batman, that was the first movie I actually saw in the theater, which I was very young and shouldn't have seen, was Batman 89. So seeing Michael Keaton back in that role was great. He actually isn't my favorite Batman, but I like Michael Keaton Batman obviously a lot. You hit on the one scene like the, where Barry has to make thing, the timeline, right. And the scene in the grocery store, like long story short, uh, Barry's mom goes out and Nora goes out to get a can of beans or something. And, or, and that's why tomatoes
Dave:
Tomatoes.
Matt:
and
Dave:
Come on,
Matt:
that
Dave:
man, they
Matt:
that's
Dave:
talk about the tomatoes so many
Matt:
yeah,
Dave:
times in the movie.
Matt:
whatever
Dave:
Beans?
Matt:
beans, whatever, garbanzo beans, something. She has to get a can of tomatoes. And that's what ultimately like leads to her demise and the flash In the beginning of the movie pulls out the canned tomatoes so she lives and it causes all this calamitous stuff But at the end of the movie what Dave's talking about it's the scene where you know Ezra Miller really shows his range and they have a really good scene where he puts the canned tomatoes back He has to say goodbye to his mother his mom kind of like I feel like she kind of like knew it was him but like that's kind of what I was kind of reading but The the woman that played that role she did a fantastic job as his mother and like I was bought in that scene was really good and All the scenes with her were pretty emotionally heavy. And
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
I really appreciated that. I liked Ben Affleck, Batman, you kinda hit on that. He was definitely in that paternal role. Barry, don't screw this up, don't do this. It reminded me, I don't know if you've seen the movie Good Will Hunting, but it reminded me of him in Good
Dave:
Oh
Matt:
Will
Dave:
yeah.
Matt:
Hunting, where he tells Matt Damon's character, you're better than this, don't be a screw up like us. He was just like. I got kind of some of those good hunting vibes and I was like, I like that. But I always did like Ben Affleck Batman. A lot of people hated him, but I kind of gave it a shot. Um, Ezra Miller, you kind of hit on that. Uh, like we talked about, I'll, I'll be honest. I tried to go into this movie as objectively as I could. Um, Dave
Dave:
same.
Matt:
mentioned some of his extracurricular activities, uh, which that was one of the reasons I didn't want to see the movie in the first place, but I was like, ah, let's, let's check this out and I'll go and give it a shot. Uh, I didn't like him at first. I liked him, him the character, not them the person. I liked him the character when Barry split into two, there was a younger Barry, you know, older Barry goes back in time and meets younger Barry. That's another plot point we didn't hit on. So there's a younger Barry and an older Barry. I really liked him playing older Barry. If they had played older Barry like that the whole time, I wouldn't have really had an issue with the character. I thought... The range was really good in that character and I liked that.
Dave:
Wait, you're saying Younger Barry was the better Barry?
Matt:
No, I liked older berry more mature berry. No, I hated
Dave:
Oh,
Matt:
younger berry.
Dave:
that
Matt:
I hated
Dave:
did not
Matt:
to...
Dave:
come through and what you just said.
Matt:
Sorry,
Dave:
Maybe I just wasn't
Matt:
thank
Dave:
following
Matt:
you.
Dave:
what you were
Matt:
No,
Dave:
saying.
Matt:
no, no. It's very confusing anyway. I liked older berry. I liked the more mature berry talking to the younger berry. So thank you for clarifying.
Dave:
Got it.
Matt:
I don't want that on wax that I like younger berry. I'm sure we're going to get
Dave:
Okay,
Matt:
into that in
Dave:
yeah,
Matt:
a bit.
Dave:
that shit was awful. That shouldn't be in anyone's good section.
Matt:
Yeah. And so, you know, as a person who likes the traditional comic book characters and how things are in Superman and all that stuff, my favorite character in this movie was Supergirl. I love Supergirl.
Dave:
Everyone's favorite character was Supergirl, I think.
Matt:
She was awesome. She was
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
awesome.
Dave:
But also,
Matt:
We'll talk about...
Dave:
yeah, I'll wait. I'll wait. Sorry.
Matt:
No,
Dave:
I'll
Matt:
she
Dave:
wait.
Matt:
got a dirty deal. Got a raw deal, is that what you're gonna say? Okay.
Dave:
No, that's not what I was going to say.
Matt:
I am separating this performance from the outside stuff. Sasha Kelly, I gotta give a lot of credit for this film. She was out there promoting this movie like crazy. I don't know if you remember that
Dave:
She
Matt:
because
Dave:
had to, no one
Matt:
Michael
Dave:
else could.
Matt:
Shannon was wrapped up, yet Ezra Miller was going through his stuff. She was the only person and she really carried...
Dave:
Ezra Miller was locked up in a dungeon
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
somewhere in the basement of WB, not allowed to leave.
Matt:
Exactly. So all this went on her. for, I mean, I would love to see a super girl movie, but like, she's in the movie, but I wish there was more. And what happens to her in the movie kind of sucks. So like, she was the one who's like, come see this movie, come see this movie. And then like how much screen time like she actually got
Dave:
She's barely in it. Yeah.
Matt:
sucked. So that was pretty much
Dave:
Yep.
Matt:
my good. That's all I got. We should get onto the bad cause this is probably going to be a lengthy list. And I really want to
Dave:
There's
Matt:
hear.
Dave:
so much of it.
Matt:
Yeah. I
Dave:
I'll
Matt:
want,
Dave:
be honest,
Matt:
I'm.
Dave:
if anyone listening does not like just hearing someone rail on something in a very negative and vitriolic way for an extended period of time, this is the part of the episode where you just stop listening. This episode's over for you. We talked about the things that we liked.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
You can be happy, just go about your day. But from here on forward, it's gonna get pretty fucking brutal in here.
Matt:
Get it, dude.
Dave:
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the direction of the character of Barry Allen in the DCEU, which thankfully I think is now officially put to bed,
Matt:
Done.
Dave:
the Snyderverse is gone, I guess. I do not understand why we've decided that Barry Allen has to be some sort of Peter Parker-like quipping young character. Barry Allen is not that guy.
Matt:
Okay, thank you.
Dave:
He's not that guy. Why do we have to do this? Why does it have to be a comedy that opening sequence with the babies falling out of the fucking
Matt:
Dude,
Dave:
hospital?
Matt:
that was when I texted
Dave:
And he's
Matt:
you.
Dave:
like, he's like shoving burritos in his fucking mouth and like puts one in them, like uses the microwave and like, what are we like, what are we doing?
Matt:
Dude, the
Dave:
Who
Matt:
lady,
Dave:
is this movie for?
Matt:
the doctor's like, ah, I'm like, that was when I texted you. I'm like, dude, I am 15 minutes into this. And like, I don't, I don't know. Like
Dave:
You know what,
Matt:
I would
Dave:
you
Matt:
have
Dave:
know
Matt:
walked
Dave:
what happened?
Matt:
out.
Dave:
At the end of that scene, at the end of that scene, I paused the movie and looked at my timer, and I looked at Abby and I said, this is when Matt tried to text me about, or called me about this movie.
Matt:
It's a
Dave:
This
Matt:
legitimately...
Dave:
was the part, this was the part. I knew it, because I felt the same way. That was just, and then he makes the comment about, she should seek professional help because the Justice League is not like.
Matt:
Yeah, that didn't age well.
Dave:
What?
Matt:
That didn't age well.
Dave:
Well, not only that, separating like the IRL version of what that's saying, has anyone involved in this movie watched any of the Snyderverse movies that this is spinning out of? Because they are very grim and very serious and very gray. I guess this is some sort of attempt at an overcorrection for what
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
I don't know because again, we are rebooting the movie universe again. So who cares? That's like the theme, like why should I care about any of the stuff that's happening?
Matt:
That submarine this movie from the start, dude, like
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
you knew it was over. Like, what's the point? I mean, I don't want to jump ahead, but like blue beetle, what's the, what's, what's the point of this movie? Like
Dave:
I don't know
Matt:
it's
Dave:
where
Matt:
the.
Dave:
Blue Beetle sits within the DC universe
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
of films. I don't, it's not Snyderverse. It's not James Gunn universe. So why are you putting it out? Where does it belong? Who knows?
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
But anyway, there was a comment made. There's a lot of things I've noticed when I went back to like refresh myself on my notes today, I wrote down. I roll quite a bit at the end of my, I would like. type something out and then it would end with, was an
Matt:
I'm
Dave:
eye roll,
Matt:
out.
Dave:
massive eye roll. I think it's. before or right after or during that hospital babies falling out of the air scene Where Barry says something about being at peak energy
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
So he has to just consume
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
massive
Matt:
he's eating.
Dave:
amounts of calories to be at peak energy, to run fast. What? I don't remember that being a thing. I don't remember seeing Barry Allen in the comics and in the middle of a fight with Captain Cold and Mirror Master, he has to stop to crush three large pizzas from Little Caesar's.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
I know they're hot and ready, so it's easy for him to just run in and grab them and go. By the way, we're not sponsored by Little Caesar's, though we should be.
Matt:
I'm sorry.
Dave:
I don't understand why that needs to be in the movie, because also, other than when the younger past Barry gets his powers and goes on like an eating spree right after the first time he uses them. We never talk about this again.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Like they go through an entire fight at the end of the movie with all of the
Matt:
Kryptonians.
Dave:
Kryptonian soldiers in Zod and not once does they would have to stop for a burger and fries.
Matt:
Yeah, that's a good point.
Dave:
It's selective usage of a very lame, I don't even want to call it a plot device, because it's not what it is. It's just an excuse. It's the it's the bullshit that Marvel does with their most comedy of superhero comedies, where we are writing a movie to move from joke to joke. And I don't care how we get to the next joke. But the writer's goal is to just write something funny that ties into the superhero or their powers or whatever. And this movie does that a lot. The lasso of truth part, that was also just, so there's no reason to make Batman say that stuff because he's holding a criminal that has the lasso of truth around his hands and therefore it's on his wrist. And then Barry grabs it and he starts spouting off some embarrassing stuff too. I don't think that's how the last of truth works. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not embarrassing truth serum.
Matt:
Good boy.
Dave:
Like, it doesn't compel you just to speak funny things.
Matt:
The one that was egregious to me was the end, one of the end cameos with Aquaman, Aquabro, where
Dave:
Oh,
Matt:
he lands
Dave:
yeah.
Matt:
in a puddle and he's just like, I'm at home. And I'm like, oh my God.
Dave:
What was the point? I don't know what the point of that was
Matt:
There was literally no point of that. Playing for
Dave:
Contractual
Matt:
laughs. Just like
Dave:
obligation
Matt:
you're saying
Dave:
maybe?
Matt:
contractual obligation, maybe, but like you're saying, playing for
Dave:
Jason
Matt:
laughs,
Dave:
Momoa had to be in a movie.
Matt:
getting a joke to joke to joke. And it's just, it's just lame, dude. Like I don't. And the MCU had the perfect, you know, formula of that. And not that it corrupted all these movies, but everyone's trying to be like that peak MCU and they're just not. Even the MCU nowadays is not that. It was in those movies and it was very selective of how they used it and that was not the focal point of the movie. I felt like that was a focal point of this movie was stupid jokes. Ezra Miller running around like an idiot. Like I hate, I don't know why he, why they run like that. I have no idea. They look stupid. Uh,
Dave:
Oh yeah, I have
Matt:
the
Dave:
that
Matt:
re-
Dave:
run down to how
Matt:
okay,
Dave:
they go
Matt:
good.
Dave:
into like speed skater pose before
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
they run fast.
Matt:
like, like what is it? And like
Dave:
Like
Matt:
you said,
Dave:
this, yeah.
Matt:
that burrito meter, like that, that was definitely something in the flash, but not like directly, like he would eat a burrito and it power up on his suit. Like what it like, are you, I don't know, like, I don't know. Like you said, battling Kryptonians and like, I don't know that was never mentioned again.
Dave:
Yeah, and it's, there's just so much stuff. There's just
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
like, Barry's able to time
Matt:
It's-
Dave:
travel because he got real mad. He got real mad
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
and
Matt:
like
Dave:
ran fast
Matt:
what?
Dave:
and couldn't time
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
travel.
Matt:
I don't. Like I know we have the cosmic treadmill or whatever, but like, I didn't even understand that. I'm like, so he can just run fast and.
Dave:
The cosmic treadmill was like a totally different thing though.
Matt:
That
Dave:
That
Matt:
was
Dave:
was
Matt:
like cra-
Dave:
to, that was to, that was to move through dimensions, not to go back in
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
time, I think. I don't, I'm not sure. Someone maybe needs to
Matt:
No,
Dave:
fact
Matt:
because
Dave:
check me on that.
Matt:
that's Crisis on Infinite Earths. I can't remember how. I wanted to read Flashpoint before this, but I just ran out of time.
Dave:
I read Flashpoint when it happened.
Matt:
Yeah, you know
Dave:
I'm
Matt:
whenever
Dave:
telling
Matt:
you
Dave:
you,
Matt:
do.
Dave:
they gotta stop trying to do Flashpoint in other media. They tried to make a Flashpoint animated movie. That's the best version of Flashpoint,
Matt:
I was gonna
Dave:
is
Matt:
say
Dave:
the
Matt:
I
Dave:
animated
Matt:
like that.
Dave:
movie.
Matt:
I like that.
Dave:
They tried to do Flashpoint in the CW Arrowverse flash. Try to do Flashpoint here in this flash movie. The scale with which Barry fucks up the timeline. by the whole, like what happens in Flashpoint, you cannot replicate that scale in a one-off movie or like a four-part crossover at a TV
Matt:
No.
Dave:
show on the CW. I'm sorry, because the interest in things like Flashpoint are around how crazy things really get when you fuck with the time stream. And the only way to do that is in animation or in comics where you have months to tell a story.
Matt:
I would agree and like
Dave:
Now,
Matt:
you
Dave:
if
Matt:
really-
Dave:
they did, If they did what Marvel did and decided that they were going to do a 20 film epic, and it culminated in Flashpoint and Flashpoint was wrapped up over the course of several movies near the end of a 20 film lead up, dude, I think you could execute that and it would be fantastic. But Warner Brothers does not have the patience or the talent for that.
Matt:
I think you hit the nail on the head for me. And I said, like, you don't know these characters. You don't know these characters. Everyone knows Batman, so whatever. You could use Batman, and we all know that story. But I mean, there's people who don't know Wonder Woman like that, definitely don't know
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
Aquaman. Aquaman and Wonder Woman are huge in that Flashpoint storyline. Like what they end
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
up doing, you know?
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
So like some of those other characters, it just, it doesn't hit or it doesn't resonate because you don't have any of that sweat equity with those characters.
Dave:
Uh, I have some other bads.
Matt:
Can I just,
Dave:
of
Matt:
I
Dave:
more
Matt:
just
Dave:
bads.
Matt:
want to, I just want to throw in
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
my one and this is a larger thing.
Dave:
Yeah, yeah,
Matt:
Can we
Dave:
go
Matt:
just
Dave:
for
Matt:
stop
Dave:
it.
Matt:
bringing back heroes in my youth and just killing them? I'm just so over that dude at this point. I really am. I know, I know Batman's death, I guess, served a purpose, but like as soon as Batman, I saw that character was like, they're going to kill him. Like that's just, that's just how, that's how it goes. Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Leia, Batman, Indiana Jones might as well be dead. Like I'm just so over that. Like I would rather. Just do something different. And another thing to me, this really wasn't a Flash movie. It was a Batman movie,
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
masquerading in a Flash movie, and it was a cameo movie. That's what it was to me. So
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
can we do Captain Cold? Can we use some of his rogue gallery? Can we do Gorilla,
Dave:
No,
Matt:
is it Gorilla Grodd?
Dave:
no,
Matt:
No, we have
Dave:
yeah.
Matt:
to do, this is just a reason to get Michael Keaton in there. And that's why I was like, oh my God, like it was, I like Michael Shannon as I really do. But once again, like Kryptonians from like, I don't know man, I'm
Dave:
The
Matt:
just
Dave:
main
Matt:
so over
Dave:
antagonist
Matt:
that.
Dave:
in a Flash movie cannot be
Matt:
It's
Dave:
General
Matt:
exactly
Dave:
Zod.
Matt:
what are
Dave:
The
Matt:
we
Dave:
Flash
Matt:
doing?
Dave:
has one of the best villain sets in comics. His rogues gallery is up there with Batman's, with Spider-Man's.
Matt:
Captain
Dave:
They
Matt:
Cold,
Dave:
are iconic.
Matt:
like all these guys, yeah, like
Dave:
Mirror Master.
Matt:
Mirror Master.
Dave:
Reverse Flash.
Matt:
Mm, don't even get started on that, like.
Dave:
Well, that's in I have that we're going to talk about that later. Don't worry.
Matt:
I'm sorry.
Dave:
That's still on my list. So I didn't view the Michael Keaton Batman as the Batman from the Michael Keaton Batman movies. To me, this
Matt:
Interesting.
Dave:
was just like an old Batman that happened to be played by Michael Keaton.
Matt:
Okay. I don't know if that's how everyone else took it. Just
Dave:
I'm sure
Matt:
because
Dave:
they
Matt:
like,
Dave:
didn't, but this
Matt:
just,
Dave:
goes back to
Matt:
that's
Dave:
like
Matt:
a
Dave:
lazy
Matt:
good...
Dave:
filmmaking.
Matt:
Yeah, that's a good... Well, that whole multiverse thing, that doesn't make sense. Like, if you go, and this is why I hate time travel stuff. Like I get, I did like Michael Keaton's explanation of the spaghetti, like of how the different lines, like I kind of got it a little
Dave:
Well...
Matt:
bit, but like, why would his appearance be different? Like why does Batman look different? Why isn't it Ben Affleck? I don't understand. If you go
Dave:
Right.
Matt:
back in time, at the end we have George Clooney Batman. Like what is, I don't understand. Your appearance isn't gonna change. Like
Dave:
Right,
Matt:
that
Dave:
right.
Matt:
made
Dave:
It's
Matt:
no sense
Dave:
lazy.
Matt:
to me.
Dave:
That's what I mean. It's lazy filmmaking. This was just an excuse for them to be like, hey, remember this guy? Remember this guy? You liked
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
him too, didn't you? Wait, wait, remember this guy?
Matt:
It's the cameo,
Dave:
He's
Matt:
man.
Dave:
dead, but he played Superman in the 80s. You liked him, didn't you, stupid?
Matt:
Oh dude don't- oh my god don't-
Dave:
That's it's like the worst type of like lazy pandering fucking bullshit.
Matt:
Dude, can we just talk about that CGI in the multiverse scene?
Dave:
awful. They put
Matt:
I thought that Grand Moff Tarkin and the Star Wars in Rogue One, I thought that was like bad CGI. Dude, this is some of the worst fucking CGI I have ever seen in a movie. Also, do you know that black and white Superman? Do you know what that is? Do you even know what that is? And you're like a well, you're a comic guy. Do you know who that is or what's the...
Dave:
The... isn't that like the 1940s TV show, Superman?
Matt:
Yeah, you good. George Reeves Superman.
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
Who in this audience is going to know that? Like who is like, who is that for?
Dave:
People in
Matt:
I
Dave:
their
Matt:
guess.
Dave:
60s?
Matt:
Like who is like, I don't
Dave:
They're
Matt:
know.
Dave:
not that- it's not that long ago!
Matt:
Yeah, I guess man. It's just we got Nick Cage Superman in there. Like the faces like it
Dave:
Dude,
Matt:
looked
Dave:
the Nick
Matt:
horrible.
Dave:
Cage Superman just made...
Matt:
Horrible.
Dave:
Why did we do that? What
Matt:
I don't,
Dave:
was the point of that?
Matt:
yeah, I don't know. And that for me, like, I think the George Reeve Superman, like I'm a Superman guy, so I kind of know that. Like that Nick Cage Superman, that's kind of like an inside baseball thing. Like if you don't know about
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
that, like it's just like, okay, here's Nick Cage as Superman. George Reeve, or how they did, I can't even. Dude, that whole scene, I can't even. Christopher Reeve, how they did Christopher Reeve dirty, Their faces didn't even look right. Like
Dave:
Did we get-
Matt:
I was.
Dave:
did they put Dean Cain in there? Where's Dean Cain at?
Matt:
They didn't put Dean Kane in there.
Dave:
Why not?
Matt:
No, no.
Dave:
Lewis and Clark, that's my guy, that's my Superman. When I
Matt:
Nah,
Dave:
was a kid.
Matt:
I know, but...
Dave:
I'm just kidding, I don't have a superman.
Matt:
That whole,
Dave:
My superman is dead.
Matt:
that whole scene, that whole, anytime they were in that, I don't even know what it was because it wasn't a cosmic travel bill where he ran around and was in the time stream or whatever that CGI was awful. Like it just looked bad. It looked like
Dave:
Yes.
Matt:
PS3 video game level bad. And you,
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
you hit it
Dave:
I-
Matt:
at the top. Six directors, they spent 300, $400 million and that's what they got. That's your return
Dave:
Yep.
Matt:
on investment.
Dave:
I watched the Screen Rant release their Honest trailer for The Flash
Matt:
Yeah, I might
Dave:
last week, I think.
Matt:
have
Dave:
Last
Matt:
to watch that.
Dave:
Tuesday. And there was one, the quote that stuck out to me after I watched it was something along the lines of, look at all, they mentioned that scene in the Speed Force where you see all those different versions of Superman and whatever and it looks like it was rendered on a GameCube. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Matt:
That's what it looks like. Like that looked like some N64 odd job with the hat on golden eye. Like that's horrible, man.
Dave:
Yeah, it's terrible.
Matt:
Oh my God.
Dave:
Terrible.
Matt:
Keep going.
Dave:
These are out of order, but that scene when young Barry gets his powers, just like some home alone ass bullshit
Matt:
Yeah, dude,
Dave:
where he's
Matt:
just
Dave:
like,
Matt:
gettin' bolted.
Dave:
yeah, just eye roll, just massive eye roll. During the course of this movie, we are forced to endure two Barry Allen's,
Matt:
Yes.
Dave:
and they're both insufferable in their own ways. Yet somehow we managed in three hours, absolutely no exploration of Barry on a deeper level. None. Except for that one scene at the end in the grocery store.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
And even that wasn't really, that was just a heartfelt sort of sad touching moment. It was not an exploration of the character of Barry Allen.
Matt:
He loves his
Dave:
At
Matt:
mom.
Dave:
all.
Matt:
No shit. Like,
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
cool.
Dave:
so don't
Matt:
Like,
Dave:
we all.
Matt:
whatever. Yeah, like,
Dave:
Um,
Matt:
don't we...
Dave:
I do too, man. No,
Matt:
That
Dave:
I'm not the Flash. Can I get powers?
Matt:
was... That's kind
Dave:
Um...
Matt:
of an asshole statement.
Dave:
Hehehe Uh, there's so the scene when Supergirl puts on the very perfectly Superman esque costume that they found in the Russian prison. Somehow
Matt:
Oh yeah.
Dave:
they kept that for her. I
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
don't know why it was so
Matt:
well,
Dave:
close
Matt:
of
Dave:
by.
Matt:
course she'd keep her costume.
Dave:
But she puts it on. She's floating above Wayne Manor. And um. She I'm paraphrasing this scene So She says that she's not from Earth She doesn't care what Zod does Then she immediately flies away Then sees him do what he does and then immediately goes back to God She's like,
Matt:
I'm sorry.
Dave:
you know, but I don't care. I don't care what happens. I'm not from Earth Just kidding. Actually, I care a lot now. I
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
now hate Zod Uh, let me hear it. Let me help you get your powers back. Barry also, how did she know to do that? Like it's just the most, it's the laziest fucking stuff that happens in this movie where they're just like, we need to have an emotional scene with Supergirl saying that she's an alien and she doesn't care about that people of earth. But we also need her to help Barry get his powers back so she can form whatever sort of weird dysfunctional half-assed justice league attempt we're after here. How do we do that? And then someone goes, I mean, let's just have it happen and not explain it. And then someone else goes, perfect. And that's what we got. The fuck.
Matt:
This is your title.
Dave:
And then the last thing that I have in the bad, and this one is, this one is just, this was the most unforgivable part of this movie for me.
Matt:
Wow, okay.
Dave:
Um, it was painfully obvious at multiple points in the movie where we were either looking at reshot footage or footage that was incomplete and needed to be finished. but Ezra Miller was not available to shoot. So we have
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
multiple scenes where there are two berries and one of them is very obviously a CG version of berry.
Matt:
Got you. Yep.
Dave:
Those things were so inhumane and unnatural looking that pulled me out of the movie so quickly and it was so jarring. And it would go from, it wasn't like it was at the second half of the movie or the middle third of the movie. It was interspersed throughout the whole film. It was lazy. It was disrespectful to the viewer. I understand when we do things like the Grand Moff Tark and stuff in Star
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
Wars, the
Matt:
yeah,
Dave:
guy is dead.
Matt:
yeah.
Dave:
Or with Carrie Fisher for Princess Leia. Whether you think it was right or wrong,
Matt:
It also
Dave:
at
Matt:
didn't
Dave:
least
Matt:
turn
Dave:
she
Matt:
out
Dave:
wasn't
Matt:
well in
Dave:
alive.
Matt:
that.
Dave:
At least she wasn't alive.
Matt:
That's true, she wasn't alive.
Dave:
Ezra Miller was alive and well. Well, maybe
Matt:
I don't
Dave:
not
Matt:
know about
Dave:
well.
Matt:
well. Exactly.
Dave:
They were alive. There's just, there was no reason to release the film that way.
Matt:
Why put this movie out? I feel
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
like you lost more, just take the L and don't lose money on your marketing. And I just, I don't know. It seems like an incomplete film. There in
Dave:
Yes.
Matt:
any movie, there are good parts in just about any movie. Good scenes, good whatever, but on a whole, what did this do? I don't know, man. It served really no purpose. And it was a lame duck movie because everyone knew that it didn't matter when they announced that, oh, and we can hit it in controversial, but a big sin that we can talk about when we get there, in my opinion.
Dave:
Well, just look at the way the movie was marketed. I mean, you mentioned earlier
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
that, you know, it was all Supergirl, forget the actress's name, sorry.
Matt:
Sasha
Dave:
Yes,
Matt:
Colley.
Dave:
she was doing all the press for the movie, the trailers, the ads, it was very much a, hey, Batman, Michael Keaton, come on, nostalgia, come on millennials, come watch it. Makes no sense. Let's go, let's. Let's get some hot takes out of the way. Let's let's I got several, but not even hot
Matt:
Uh...
Dave:
takes. Maybe they're controversial takes, but I've just got, these are probably also just bad things too.
Matt:
I already said like what about it?
Dave:
I have to.
Matt:
Uh, do you think this is one of the worst superhero movies ever made?
Dave:
Yes.
Matt:
If not the worst. Yeah,
Dave:
It's not
Matt:
okay.
Dave:
the worst, but it's one of the worst.
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
Batman versus Superman is worse.
Matt:
You think Batman and Superman, I don't think that, but that's fine.
Dave:
Really? Did you remember what they did to Doomsday in that movie?
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Do you remember? What did you say?
Matt:
Martha!
Dave:
Martha? Do you remember that?
Matt:
I remember
Dave:
Do you
Matt:
that.
Dave:
remember, do you remember, remember Batman on the ceiling hissing like a cat when the light got put on him?
Matt:
I don't remember that
Dave:
I do.
Matt:
actually.
Dave:
I remember that. Do you remember how like you could just get in a boat and then ride to Metropolis from Gotham Harbor?
Matt:
Don't be that guy, Dave. Don't be that guy.
Dave:
No, Batman vs Superman is terrible. That is a terrible fucking
Matt:
Oh, I'm not
Dave:
movie.
Matt:
see... Okay.
Dave:
It's worse than The Flash.
Matt:
That movie, no, it is not worse than The Flash.
Dave:
Yes it is.
Matt:
No,
Dave:
Yes
Matt:
it
Dave:
it
Matt:
is
Dave:
is.
Matt:
not.
Dave:
It
Matt:
Dude,
Dave:
is awful.
Matt:
this incomprehensive, me listening to Ezra Miller's screech for three hours, the most, I'm not gonna sit up here and act like I know everything about The Flash, but any interaction I've had from the TV show, the animated series, the comic books I've read, that The Flash did not sound like that, and that was not The Flash's voice. This. Overly anxiety
Dave:
And
Matt:
written.
Dave:
nothing in Batman vs Superman made sense either. Remember at the end of Batman vs Superman when Deathstroke was there and then when they just said whatever, fuck it,
Matt:
What?
Dave:
who cares?
Matt:
That's a DC problem. That's not it.
Dave:
I'm just
Matt:
That's
Dave:
saying.
Matt:
a DC you problem. That ain't, that's nothing. Remember this movie when George Clooney pops up for no reason.
Dave:
Yeah, Batman versus Superman is still worse. I almost walked out of that movie.
Matt:
I would have walked out of this. I almost tried to return this movie.
Dave:
I don't think there's any
Matt:
I would,
Dave:
steam
Matt:
I
Dave:
like
Matt:
would
Dave:
buyer's
Matt:
dude, if
Dave:
remorse.
Matt:
I swear, if, if I was in a movie theater and that baby scene, I would have walked out. Like I, I was like, this is, I would have been like, this is, this is what I thought
Dave:
Nah,
Matt:
this movie
Dave:
you wouldn't
Matt:
is going
Dave:
have.
Matt:
to be. I would blow. I would have finished
Dave:
You
Matt:
my popcorn. I would have finished my pop.
Dave:
would have stayed. You know why you would have stayed? Because you knew that you had that Michael Keaton Batman coming, you would have fucking stayed. Don't front, don't front.
Matt:
No,
Dave:
You would have stayed.
Matt:
I mean... I guess, I don't know. I
Dave:
You
Matt:
knew
Dave:
would
Matt:
it
Dave:
have
Matt:
was gonna
Dave:
stayed.
Matt:
happen though. Okay, my other one was, my other hot take was like, this isn't a flash movie, in my opinion. We already talked about that. You can't, can I just make my, I guess my one hot take statement? I'm not trusting
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
anything
Dave:
sure.
Matt:
James Gunn says. I'm not, after this, he said, this is one of the best superhero movies ever and they did an amazing job. They had Tom Cruise saying, this is everything you want in a superhero movie. I can not trust any Hollywood. That's just straight spin, dude. Trying to get recoup
Dave:
I mean,
Matt:
some
Dave:
yeah,
Matt:
money. I get,
Dave:
exactly.
Matt:
I get James Gunn trying to be the company man, but dude, like
Dave:
What's
Matt:
this
Dave:
the,
Matt:
does
Dave:
what's
Matt:
not
Dave:
the, what
Matt:
inspire,
Dave:
are they paying James Gunn? What are they paying
Matt:
yeah,
Dave:
James
Matt:
exactly.
Dave:
Gunn?
Matt:
This isn't, this isn't
Dave:
Do
Matt:
inspiring.
Dave:
you know?
Matt:
But no, I
Dave:
Do
Matt:
don't know.
Dave:
you have
Matt:
I
Dave:
the amount? I mean,
Matt:
don't have to figure now.
Dave:
whatever it is, I'll say whatever the fuck you want for that money.
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
I will say whatever you want.
Matt:
that's
Dave:
Anything.
Matt:
true. That's true. I just I would not put my put I wouldn't I have too much dignity. I guess to say some shit like that. I'd like can I say something else like I don't know the one of the greatest superhero
Dave:
I mean,
Matt:
films of all
Dave:
that
Matt:
time
Dave:
man's gotta be getting like $20 million.
Matt:
I guess the bag
Dave:
For $20
Matt:
All
Dave:
million?
Matt:
right.
Dave:
Yep,
Matt:
All right.
Dave:
that is
Matt:
Yes,
Dave:
the greatest,
Matt:
true
Dave:
that's everything you want in a superhero movie.
Matt:
That's true, I
Dave:
What
Matt:
guess
Dave:
else do you want me
Matt:
I
Dave:
to
Matt:
don't
Dave:
say about
Matt:
know.
Dave:
it?
Matt:
Yeah
Dave:
Ezra Miller delivers a once in a generation performance as dual Barry Allen. What else do you want me to say?
Matt:
Better than Charlton
Dave:
General
Matt:
Heston,
Dave:
Zod is
Matt:
Barclay.
Dave:
the most terrifying villain to ever grace the screen in a superhero movie.
Matt:
Move over Pacino. Move over, like,
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
Ezra Miller. Got it. Yeah, all right.
Dave:
say whatever
Matt:
I just,
Dave:
you want. I'll say whatever you want.
Matt:
this movie has shaken my confidence to DC to the core. I was holding out hope. I've been holding out hope. I've been getting through Man of Steel, Batman, Superman, you know, I've been getting through these movies. This is shaking me to the core, damn. It's over, it's over.
Dave:
and that's where we're different. That's where we're different because
Matt:
I'm glad you...
Dave:
I had
Matt:
I'm...
Dave:
that... I had this moment of being shaken to my core on... hold on...
Matt:
You're going to say
Dave:
March
Matt:
Manistee.
Dave:
25th, 2016. March 25th, 2016. I already mentioned that date once tonight.
Matt:
Batman, Batman Super.
Dave:
That movie told me everything I needed to know about what they were doing in the DCEU. I have not been wrong since. It's trash.
Matt:
I thought you said you liked the tone of the movies? Is that what you're saying? You liked the grittiness? I thought you said you liked something
Dave:
I like
Matt:
about
Dave:
the
Matt:
it.
Dave:
Snyderverse tone, yeah,
Matt:
The tone
Dave:
but they
Matt:
of
Dave:
also didn't
Matt:
the universe.
Dave:
let him do whatever he wanted to do.
Matt:
True.
Dave:
They didn't give him free control, which is what was supposed to happen.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
When he does get to do what he wants to do, we get the Snyder cut of Justice League. That movie's awesome.
Matt:
I need to watch that stuff, I haven't
Dave:
I love
Matt:
seen
Dave:
the Snyder
Matt:
it.
Dave:
cut. It's so good.
Matt:
Nah, I need to watch it.
Dave:
It, the, they did the same shit with Justice League that they did with this. They didn't let Snyder finish it. They made, what's his name? Josh Whedon come in. Joss
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
Whedon. Josh Whedon.
Matt:
Joshua. He's a quarterback for the Browns. I think.
Dave:
Not anymore, he's not.
Matt:
He wasn't.
Dave:
They let that dude come in and reshoot it like it's an Avengers movie with all the Marvel jokes. That shit flopped. Like everything, the Suicide Squad, the first Suicide Squad movie sucked. The only good movies that they've released were the first Wonder Woman and the Snyder Cut. And Man of Steel, I think, was decent too for what it was. Everything else has been pretty bad.
Matt:
Yeah, that's a lot coming from you.
Dave:
I know. So I've got I've got a few things,
Matt:
Yes.
Dave:
some more, some more controversial opinions here. This one probably isn't really controversial. But like, there was there are things done and said in this movie and actions taken to expand the lore of the Snyder verse. I don't know why we wasted any
Matt:
Why?
Dave:
time doing
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
that. Like, what is the point? Who cares? It's dead. Also, particularly in scenes when Barry is talking to his dad, like before he travels back in time. they straight up lifted dialogue from the CW Flash show.
Matt:
Really.
Dave:
Like they had somebody like watching the Flash, taking notes, and then bringing it to the script writing meetings. Like they just stole some shit. And speaking of the CW Flash show, where was Grant Gustin at? I feel like he could have prevented a lot of this stuff from happening.
Matt:
Yup.
Dave:
Also, maybe he read the script and this is all smoke and mirrors but the scheduling didn't work out, couldn't get Grant on set. Maybe he read the script and knew better than to associate himself with that because now he still owns the top spot of being the best portrayal of The Flash and
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
probably will for some time. Except for those last couple of seasons, but the first like four, maybe five
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
seasons of The Flash
Matt:
they were
Dave:
on
Matt:
hot.
Dave:
CW phenomenal. Show lost its way a little bit.
Matt:
It always does.
Dave:
And it yeah, not always, but the CW they tend to take their shows. Like two seasons too long.
Matt:
And by lost its way, we mean lost its budget and ideas. That's what happened.
Dave:
Yeah, well, yeah, because the show was bad. So people stop watching people stop watching and then they cut the budget That's how it goes And then my last I guess I have to so you mentioned this already but like the george cluney appearance at the end So What is that? What as the viewer? what am I supposed to believe happened now is Is barry in the batman and robin batman universe? I think that might be deserved based on how corny the movie was.
Matt:
Damn.
Dave:
Or is he, that's not even an original thought. I lifted that from the Honest trailer. They had that thought first.
Matt:
That's a good one.
Dave:
I can't take credit for it. Is he in the Snyderverse still, but Ben Affleck now looks like George Clooney because he still didn't fix and then like his tooth falls out. So what does it all mean? Who knows? We'll never find out. And honestly, who fucking cares? Cause this
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
shit sucks. Why do I care what happened? I don't, but I do care that we wasted three hours on this half-assed
Matt:
every hour soon.
Dave:
time travel story. with Batman and Supergirl and Zod and another Batman and Wonder Woman and another Batman and a second Barry, when all we had to do, all we had to do was tell an interesting story about Eobard Thawne traveling back in time to kill Barry's mom to get revenge on the Flash, and let this be a reverse Flash origin story slash kickoff of like the Flash arch nemesis in whatever movie universe he's gonna live in. If he would have just done that and said, oh hey, by the way, like this version of the Flash we're continuing in the James Gunn reboot, I would have accepted that. but we didn't get that for some reason.
Matt:
Yeah. Well, I wonder if that was maybe part of one of the initial plans of one of the initial scripts or shoots. Who knows?
Dave:
Yeah, maybe.
Matt:
Cause they didn't really
Dave:
We'll never
Matt:
show
Dave:
know.
Matt:
them at first. I don't know. Like, who knows? It's the mess. It is a mess of epic
Dave:
Yeah. Yeah,
Matt:
proportions.
Dave:
and that's the thing. They never really, they didn't do anything with that.
Matt:
Like he gets bumped when he's
Dave:
like
Matt:
traveling or whatever, like, and that kind of, that's what messes him up. And I don't know. We come to find out it's young Barry, that's who does it, but you don't ever see
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
the character, if I remember correctly, it's just.
Dave:
Correct. What
Matt:
to it.
Dave:
do you mean, like the thing that knocks Barry off course the
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
first
Matt:
they don't
Dave:
time
Matt:
really
Dave:
initially?
Matt:
see him because that's how he gets, that's how it all, this whole calamity starts.
Dave:
They do at the end of the movie. That's... it's Barry.
Matt:
We yes, but like I'm just saying when it happens, you don't see the character of me I'm saying like aka
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
it could
Dave:
yeah.
Matt:
have been reverse flash and they're like, okay.
Dave:
Oh,
Matt:
Well,
Dave:
yeah,
Matt:
this is
Dave:
yeah.
Matt:
how we tie up this line That's we're gonna make it very young berry I don't know mess don't care.
Dave:
It's
Matt:
Don't
Dave:
a mess.
Matt:
ever need to see
Dave:
It's
Matt:
it
Dave:
a
Matt:
again.
Dave:
mess.
Matt:
Don't
Dave:
And
Matt:
care
Dave:
we never find out how his mom died.
Matt:
No, no replayable
Dave:
We left that just
Matt:
no value
Dave:
who cares. She gets stabbed in the kitchen of her own home. We exonerate his dad by the end of the movie, but you don't get any resolution on how his mom died. No
Matt:
Yep.
Dave:
one does.
Matt:
Nope.
Dave:
We just accept that she has to die.
Matt:
I mean, couldn't him saving his dad as well jack up the timeline? Like, it's just selfish, dude.
Dave:
I don't know, maybe. Maybe that's the George Clooney thing.
Matt:
Maybe,
Dave:
I don't know.
Matt:
like that's the whole, it's just a selfish, he learned nothing.
Dave:
Yes. It's lazy. It's just lazy. Dude, we just wanted to make a superhero comedy. Just
Matt:
I cannot
Dave:
lazy.
Matt:
believe that movie was three hours to now that you said that it
Dave:
I
Matt:
really
Dave:
know.
Matt:
was.
Dave:
I can't believe it either. I will, the last thing that I have that's like a hot take, this is also about Barry's mom dying. When they show us that in the flashback, Barry's in his room. He hears his mom scream. Then he looks out the window and sees his dad getting out of the car in the driveway. So how was someone inside the house seeing the person suspected of killing his mom not in the house when his mom screams? Not enough to prevent his dad from going to jail in the fucking first place? Do we just not believe kids? I don't understand.
Matt:
Uh, probably. I mean, I guess that's, that would be the logic they go with. They'd say he's too traumatized to remember or something. I don't know.
Dave:
lazy. Don't sh- why would you- why would you sh- why would you film it that way?
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Just don't film it that way. Just don't show Barry looking out the window to see his dad not in the house while his mom gets murdered.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Like it's such an easy thing to not have happen.
Matt:
Plot holes abound.
Dave:
Lazy. Absolutely lazy. I got nothing else to say, man. I feel, I feel a little bit. This was a catharsis. I feel better.
Matt:
Yeah, I feel better. I feel much better.
Dave:
I got it out. I got a little heated. You got a little heated. We both got to talk some shit. It felt good. This I think is the episode that I've cussed in the most.
Matt:
I just find this movie ultimately so frustrating because there's so many, there's, there was so much room with that flash. Well, not even the flash point storyline, but that you could tell that there was kind of like the shell of a good idea here, but like through the numerous rewrites, multiple people, like there was a shell of a cool idea somewhere in there, but it just got lost. And I just, I, what I don't, I'm not in charge of Warner Brothers, but I wouldn't have put this out. It makes they're talking about that Batgirl movie ruining like being so bad. It damaged your brain. This, this is a brand damaging movie to me. Like, this is not what, like, what is this? I don't
Dave:
Yes, I agree.
Matt:
know.
Dave:
That I couldn't have wrapped it up better myself. So with that, we put out new episodes every two weeks. You can also follow us. I'm not going to call it what it's called now. You can follow us on Twitter. I'll put our Twitter handles in the
Matt:
I'm
Dave:
episode
Matt:
sorry.
Dave:
description. I'll also put my threads handle in the episode description because I'm on threads. We're trying to get Matt on threads. Maybe maybe someday he'll give up Twitter and come to threads with the rest of us. If not, that's okay. But if you like what you see or hear, like it. I don't know, follow us, tell a friend about it, help us out, promote the podcast a little bit so we can keep doing this thing. And we'll be back in two weeks with I don't know what yet. I think we've still got another movie review in us. Maybe we'll do that in
Matt:
This
Dave:
two
Matt:
is
Dave:
weeks.
Matt:
fun
Dave:
I don't
Matt:
dude,
Dave:
know.
Matt:
I kind of want to do that again,
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
but we'll see
Dave:
Matt and I will give it some thought. We'll talk about it. and we'll see you all in two weeks. Until then, my name is Dave.
Matt:
And I'm out.
Dave:
Take care of yourselves, everybody.
Matt:
Peace.