THIS EPISODE CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE INVINCIBLE COMIC BOOK
This month's Invincible re-read episode is volumes 13 and 14 of the comic. The Viltrumite War is the major story beat in this episode, but there's also quite a bit of Mark maturing and some major status quo changes for our supporting cast.
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Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content
THIS EPISODE CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE INVINCIBLE COMIC BOOK
This month's Invincible re-read episode is volumes 13 and 14 of the comic. The Viltrumite War is the major story beat in this episode, but there's also quite a bit of Mark maturing and some major status quo changes for our supporting cast.
Follow our Instagram:
@comicdudespodcast
Follow our Tiktok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@comicdudeswithattitudes
Follow us on Twitter:
@Dave_xBT817x
@Warden43tk
@NuclearIsLonely
Original Music by Alex Productions
Show notes include some AI generated content
Dave:
Welcome back to the Comic Dudes. For us, it's been a long time since we've recorded
Matt:
Thanks for watching!
Dave:
an episode. For everybody else, it's only been like two weeks since they've heard from us. However, we pulled an episode out of the vault the last time y'all got a new episode from us. Matt and I haven't actually recorded an episode in like a month.
Matt:
foreign
Dave:
I'm happy
Matt:
man.
Dave:
to be back.
Matt:
Me too. It's a weird feeling.
Dave:
So as you've all probably seen, this is July's invincible episode. This is part seven of our year long celebration of the 20th anniversary of invincible. Every month, we read to trade paperbacks. Well, I read one ultimate or I read to trade paperbacks, Matt reads one ultimate collection. And then we get together and we talk about it. If you forgot about how this thing works. I will recap what we read and then Matt and I will talk through the good, the bad, and the controversial. Our hot takes and maybe not so hot takes. But before I get to that, there's news to discuss, Matthew. There's news to discuss.
Matt:
This is a curveball, yes.
Dave:
At San Diego Comic Con, there are two big things announced related to Invincible. First, Season 2 releases on November 3rd of this year. We're getting new episodes, which doesn't mean much to you since you never finished Season 1, much to my chagrin. But I'm very excited about it. Maybe you can find some time to finish season one. I don't know. Maybe that's a thing that you can muster up.
Matt:
I got
Dave:
I
Matt:
a
Dave:
don't
Matt:
new
Dave:
know.
Matt:
TV watching strategy. I'm gonna get there by that time. Don't worry.
Dave:
Alright, alright. The second bit of news also related to the Invincible show. During San Diego Comic Con, they announced a special Adam Eve origin episode which released on Amazon Prime that day.
Matt:
Oh, I didn't know
Dave:
So
Matt:
it was out.
Dave:
my girlfriend and I watched that episode last night. It's phenomenal. It was very, very good to get back into the Invincible universe in the form of the show at least. and highly recommended for any Invincible fans out there that maybe didn't know or didn't hear. There is a new episode, it's an Adam Eve origin. It's pretty faithful to the comics if you've read the Adam Eve origin in the comics. If you need a refresher on who she is and where she came from, this is the episode for you. Check it out. Hopefully it ties us over for another three months and week or so until we get new episodes officially.
Matt:
you're forgetting about that mobile game that got announced. It's going to be a stick up on your wallet. You have to pay
Dave:
That's
Matt:
all your
Dave:
true.
Matt:
money. And
Dave:
That's true.
Matt:
so we don't get invincible games much, but it's a start. It's a start.
Dave:
Yeah, invincible guarding the globe, I think is what
Matt:
Yes,
Dave:
it was called, right?
Matt:
yeah, yeah.
Dave:
Um, yeah, it's like a, it's a hero collector, like Marvel strike force. And there's like a DC one like that. And, uh, sure. There's others that I'm not aware of, but yeah, I sink a lot of time into Marvel strike force, unfortunately. So getting an invincible game in the same, the same vein of that. So I'll check it out. I'm sure. In fact, I'm already signed up for the beta.
Matt:
I'm really excited to dig into this and see what we're talking about here today. See
Dave:
All
Matt:
how you're feeling about
Dave:
right, well,
Matt:
it.
Dave:
let's get into it. This recap, I did my best to keep it brief, but I
Matt:
There's
Dave:
got
Matt:
a
Dave:
to
Matt:
lot.
Dave:
be honest.
Matt:
Yeah. I'm not sure if I'm
Dave:
There's
Matt:
gonna
Dave:
a lot
Matt:
be
Dave:
that happened.
Matt:
able to
Dave:
Yeah, there's
Matt:
do
Dave:
a lot
Matt:
this.
Dave:
that happened. So this is volumes 13 and 14. Again, I'm just hitting the high notes here. It's not a fully comprehensive recap, but it's at least the broad strokes. We kick off volume 13 with Nolan. telling Alan about the Scourge virus and how there are less than 50 pure-blooded Viltrumites left in the universe. We also find out that Earth was meant to be a breeding camp for Viltrumites, which is why Nolan was there in the first place and procreated with a human to create Mark to see if that would work. This is post-Alan and Nolan escaping from the Viltrumite prison. We talked about that in the last episode. So after that exchange, Alan takes Nolan to the Coalition of Planets headquarters on Telusria, I guess, and they start hunting down things in Alan's or Nolan's books. Remember the books we talked about these before, he left them to Mark, Alan has a copy of them. These are secrets hidden in Nolan's books that can hurt or take down a Viltrumite and they start with a character called Space Racer. I'm not going to get into the details on that. Um, Alan and Nolan continue to hunt down these weapons to sort of varying degrees of success. Some they get, some they don't. Um, Nolan is staying with Alan on Telestria. Um, but, uh, he also meets with the leader of the coalition of planets. His name is Thaddeus. Uh, and Nolan also learns that Thaddeus is the first. responsible, I guess, for the scourge virus, which is a virus that ripped through the philtrumites and killed almost all of them at one point in the past. And that he has also created a new more powerful strain based on his DNA that is ready to use if they need it. At this point, we go back to earth. And Mark fights a character called dinosaurs for the first time. This is the only time we see dinosaurs in this trade. but Dinosaurus is gonna come back in a major way very, very soon. That's the only reason I bring him up. Dinosaurus is an important character to the comic. He looks goofy. He has a goofy name. Very important. After that fight, Mark has an extremely awkward dinner with Eve's family. We
Matt:
This
Dave:
also
Matt:
is on
Dave:
find
Matt:
my
Dave:
out
Matt:
list
Dave:
that
Matt:
for the weird.
Dave:
Oliver, Oliver has aged quite a bit. He's now sort of like a late teens maybe early 20s. He's changed his name to Young Omni-Man. We also find out, if you remember Cecil kept Conquest. Mark thought he killed Conquest. Conquest was not dead. Cecil tries to keep him in prison under the earth in a bunch of concrete. Well he wakes up and he breaks out. And we also find out that the Sequids are back and ready to attack. And he finds out that
Matt:
He's dropped. Casual
Dave:
so much
Matt:
drop.
Dave:
happened. Yeah, in the next issue, a character called Unversa attacks a power plant at the same time that the Seekwids attack Houston. Mark and Eve take on Unversa. The Guardians of the Globe are actually fighting the Seekwids in Houston, but they fail and Cecil comes to Mark for help. The attack is stopped, and it's stopped by Mark, who does so by killing the only remaining host left inside of this big force field. His name was Russ Livingston. This was the astronaut that went to Mars way back in like volume one or two. Mark just chops his dude in half. And that's it. And of end of secret invasion. At the end of the issue, Mark is sort of, he's telling Eve about how he can feel himself losing more control and giving in to anger. and he doesn't think that things are going to be okay. And it's at this point that Cecil ports into Mark's bedroom and says that they need to have a talk. Cecil takes him to the Pentagon. He makes him have a chat with DA Sinclair, challenges Mark on some things that he's been doing related to sort of being judge, jury and executioner. Really, it's kind of a, it's a good conversation and I'm sure we'll talk about it more later. He also then asks- Mark to help in New York City with a dispute with the order, which is a criminal like a worldwide criminal organization. It's that dude that can turn a rock whose name escapes me. And
Matt:
I always want to say
Dave:
there's
Matt:
Titan,
Dave:
like
Matt:
but it's
Dave:
a
Matt:
not him. It's not Titan.
Dave:
I think it I think it is Titan.
Matt:
Is it Titan? Okay.
Dave:
Is it not? Might be. I don't remember. This is terrible. I should have looked it up. It's in my notes. I should have looked it up. It's minor to the story. Mark also goes and talks to Art, the guy that makes all the superheroes costumes. Similarly to his talk with Eve, he sort of talks to Art about how, you know, he feels himself becoming more and more like his father and thinks that's not a good thing. Needs a change. And he ends up getting his old costume back, which I thought was great. Although it's slightly altered. This trade ends with Nolan and Alan coming to Earth and telling Mark they need him to help fight the Viltrimites. And then there's the last bit. And I don't know if this was in your reading of this, but I had like a recap slash date night with Mark and Eve where he really just
Matt:
Yes.
Dave:
sort of tells her all the stuff about the Viltrimites that we already knew. And then he also says, hey, I'm done with the killing. Like no more of this. The Russ Livingston thing was just too much. Like he's done. That's it for volume. 13. Volume 14 is titled the Viltrumite War. This is something that we've been building to for some time. I've been talking about this in these episodes that hey, there's more Viltrumite stuff coming. There's more Viltrumite stuff coming. Now it's here. So while on earth waiting for Mark to get ready to leave, Alan and Nolan go to find yet another weapon to help fight the Viltrumites. It's actually a character named Techjacket, who has got Geldarian technology, which is good for fighting Viltrumites. Nolan also has a very awkward interaction with Debbie and then Oliver initially was not supposed to come with them but uh Nolan changes his mind and says hey why don't you come too and then Mark gets it on with Eve one more time to say goodbye. While they're in transit to go back to Telescria and start fighting this war, Conquest and a few other filter might destroy that ship. There is a massive fight. um that takes place in space and on a planet obviously mark is very upset because he figures out that cecil has kept conquest alive um and in a very brutal fight mark finally kills conquest but also almost dies himself at this point war is well underway within the galaxy with the viltrumites and the coalition of planets which i'd also like to point out If you shorten the coalition of planets
Matt:
Hehehehe
Dave:
to just an acronym, it spells cop. Uh, I don't think that's unintentional. I think that was a very much intentional by Kirkman. I just think it's clever. Um, tech jacket and Alan do a lot of work in the war and they do so with one of my favorite characters in the comic battle beasts. Um, and while this is happening, everyone thinks that Nolan Mark and Oliver MIA, but what's really happening is. Mark needs to heal. Conquest punched a hole through his body and his guts fell out. It's taking him months to heal. And Nolan and Oliver are just sort of having like father-son time and just sort of making sure that Mark is healing okay and that he's gonna wake up while they're still there. We also find out there's a traitor in the midst of the coalition of planets. That will come back to play here shortly. Next issue. Teleskria is invaded by the Viltrumites with the help of this traitor. It's one of Thaddeus' assistants. He takes the defenses down to allow the Viltrumites access to the Citadel. And it's also at this point that Mark wakes up on this planet. And in the midst of this big battle, the entire Grayson family shows up and saves the day. They also learn that after they repel this Viltrumite attack, that the Viltrumites are all going to go back to Viltrum to... regroup and counter attack. There's a lot of fighting in the next couple of issues. The next issue is pretty much all fights. The coalition goes to Viltrum, they're ambushed in a ring, you know, Saturn has rings. Well, there's a ring around the planet of Viltrum and that ring is made up of dead Viltrumite bodies that died because of the scourge virus. They are kept there as a form of remembrance for what happened. And Viltrumites are hiding within all of these dead bodies waiting for the coalition of plans to show up and that's exactly what happens We have a lot of The leader of the Viltrumites his name is Thrag He gets involved in a very big way He fights mark He kills oliver And after that happens nolan mark and thaddeus with some help from space racer punch a hole through the planet Viltrum, destroying the entire planet. It's after this that Thragg kills Thaddeus, almost kills Nolan by punching a hole through his chest and stomach as well, and is about to kill Mark before deciding to spare them both. And this is very unpopular with the other Viltrumites, but he decides to spare them both. And then they just sort of leave. Nolan and Mark wake up in Telescria. At this point, Alan is not the leader of the coalition of planets because Thaddeus is dead. Oliver is alive. He's in like a big, like a back to tank being
Matt:
Thank
Dave:
rebuilt.
Matt:
you.
Dave:
And Mark thinks at this point that the Vulture might have gone back to earth because they haven't been seen or heard from since almost killing Mark and Nolan. The end of the previous issue. So they decide, Hey, we need to get back to earth. And throughout the course of traveling back to earth. Mark is just absolutely imagining the worst images of Thrag killing his mom, killing Eve, just absolute death and destruction. But when they finally get to Earth, nothing has happened. Everything looks normal. And while Mark and Nolan are flying around, they encounter Thrag in the air. And Thrag says, hey, there's 37 of us left. We're already here. And here's what's going to happen. We're going to stay on earth. We're not going to interfere and we're not going to harm anyone or anything here. All we're going to do is repopulate the Viltrumite race and rebuild our ranks. And there's really nothing you can do about it. So here are your options. You either allow this to happen or we fight you right now and you know, you can't win and you know, we'll destroy this planet and reluctantly Mark agrees to let the Viltrumite stay on planet earth in secret and rebuild the Viltrumite population. We get one wrap-up issue after that. Mark goes to see Eve. She's gained quite a bit of weight. They cry. They're happy to see each other. Not much resolution happens with Mark and Eve. Debbie and Nolan, however, do have a bit of a reconciliation. It seems like they're working on repairing things. They've left Oliver on Telescria.
Matt:
You
Dave:
He's
Matt:
almost left him.
Dave:
more about Oliver and the coming trades that we'll get to next month I think. And Mark really spends a lot of time just trying to come to grips with the outcome of the Viltrumite war. Also, Eve has a secret. She goes to see William. He asks if she's told Mark. She says no. Presumably it has something to do with the pregnancy that she learned about before Mark left, but we're not going to find out today because that doesn't happen in this issue. And then the last thing that we learned that's of importance, in my opinion, Thaddeus leaves a note for Alan and tells him about the Scourge Virus and says, if worse comes to worse, don't worry about our allies that are Viltrum. Just use it and rid the galaxy of the Viltrumite threat once and for all. And that is how volume 14 ends. And that is the last sort of broad stroke of storytelling in our recap.
Matt:
Bravo, sir, bravo, another fabulous recap as always.
Dave:
Thanks.
Matt:
I don't even know where to start, dude. I don't know where to start. There's so much.
Dave:
Pick a pick a pick a spot. Let's talk about the good. What did
Matt:
So
Dave:
we like?
Matt:
I just want to say, I'm really happy I got a football scholarship and probably suffered some concussions because I don't remember a lot of this. So this was like reading this for the first
Dave:
Hehehehe
Matt:
time again. It was fantastic, dude. I don't remember like half of this stuff. Um, I liked one of the top things I liked. I really liked, and I went through my comic book collection, my actual comic book collection and,
Dave:
Okay.
Matt:
um, YouTube or visual. This was actually the first invincible comic book I bought of my run was invincible returns. That's what I was holding up. That was the issue where Dave was talking about the conversation between Cecil and Mark and meeting DA Sinclair. Um, I know it's complete blasphemy, but that was a really good jumping on issue. If you had not read invincible or if you're one of those people or someone's like,
Dave:
That was the point at the time.
Matt:
Exactly. Like
Dave:
That
Matt:
it.
Dave:
issue was meant to be a jumping on point prior to the Viltrumite War starting.
Matt:
I 100% agree with Dave, like you should read this from the beginning, but if you're one of those people that's like, I'm not going to read the previous 60 something issues. That is one of the best jumping on issues. I think I've ever read that gets you kind of caught up on what's going on. I really liked it. I
Dave:
Mmm...
Matt:
really know. I know you're going to be contentious. This is your fit. You're too close to this, bro. You're too close to this. I know. I knew
Dave:
on
Matt:
that
Dave:
that.
Matt:
was going to be a contentious point all week.
Dave:
Ha ha ha!
Matt:
I really liked the symbolic reboot to the old costume and like starting over, you know, like he, I liked that blue and black costume.
Dave:
I hate the
Matt:
I
Dave:
blue
Matt:
really
Dave:
and black
Matt:
do.
Dave:
costume.
Matt:
I like
Dave:
I don't like
Matt:
it. I
Dave:
that.
Matt:
don't hate it. I don't hate it,
Dave:
Nah,
Matt:
but
Dave:
I hate it.
Matt:
I'm going into one of my negatives. Like I don't have a lot of dislikes, but one of my dislikes was, you know me, I like
Dave:
Hold
Matt:
my
Dave:
on, hold
Matt:
idealist.
Dave:
on, before you
Matt:
Okay,
Dave:
do
Matt:
okay,
Dave:
that, before
Matt:
okay.
Dave:
we do that, hold on, hold on, hold on. Can we stay with the good before we move to the bad?
Matt:
But okay,
Dave:
Let's just only talk good.
Matt:
all right, I like the invincible returns one shot. I like how it set the scene. I like the conversations that Cecil was having with Mark. I think Cecil was putting some truth bombs on Mark.
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
Whether you wanna
Dave:
I
Matt:
hear
Dave:
agree.
Matt:
it or not, Cecil's kinda right. So I really, I really liked that. Ryan Ottley art as always. There was fill-ins by Walker. Cory Walker, right? That was the original guy, the original artist.
Dave:
Yeah, yeah,
Matt:
He
Dave:
for
Matt:
did
Dave:
sure,
Matt:
those,
Dave:
yeah,
Matt:
he did the Mark,
Dave:
yeah.
Matt:
the, he did the Nolan Allen beginning. Those two issues and they are actually, I thought his art was good. I thought it was better than the previous Cory Walker issues we had, but this Ottley art
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
man, it's no Ottley art, but it worked. This, this, this combat and this physicality in this art. I know I say it every time, but it just ramps and gets better and better with every issue we read and every one of these big epic arcs. I just, man, it blew me away.
Dave:
No one draws superhero fights like Ryan Ottley.
Matt:
No.
Dave:
Sorry, no one does it better. No one does it better. And I'll even go so far as to say, his work at Marvel doesn't come close
Matt:
No.
Dave:
to when he can just take the reins off
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
and go nuts with it like he does on Invincible, because there's only so much you can do when you're writing for the big two, Marvel or DC. He still does great with the Marvel stuff that I've read, but man. It doesn't touch this stuff.
Matt:
next time we need to research what that technique is, that Viltrum palm technique, because that's in every one of these
Dave:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Matt:
arcs going through someone's chest. And like, you can't do that with Spider-Man. Doc Ock ain't doing that to
Dave:
No.
Matt:
Spider-Man punching someone through the chest with the upside down hand. And that happens in every one of these oddly, uh, every one of these epic battles
Dave:
lot a
Matt:
with
Dave:
lot
Matt:
the Viltrumite.
Dave:
of entrails.
Matt:
A lot of entrails, a lot of blood. So if you're squeamish, these are going to be some rough trades to get through. But... We all know this is Dave's show, so I want Dave to like, what are your likes, man? What are your likes? I need to hear them. I've been waiting all week
Dave:
Number
Matt:
for this.
Dave:
one is Dinosaurus.
Matt:
And you keep saying how
Dave:
And
Matt:
big
Dave:
it's
Matt:
of a role he plays. I really don't
Dave:
preemptive.
Matt:
remember what he does.
Dave:
I
Matt:
I know
Dave:
know,
Matt:
I really
Dave:
I know.
Matt:
don't. I can't
Dave:
So
Matt:
wait now.
Dave:
I can't, I'm not gonna say
Matt:
No,
Dave:
too
Matt:
no, no. I
Dave:
much.
Matt:
don't even.
Dave:
I'm not gonna say too much, but Dinosaurus is a catalyst for so many things to happen in this comic. It's gonna be fantastic. I didn't remember that he just sort of appears
Matt:
showed
Dave:
randomly
Matt:
up.
Dave:
and then doesn't show up for like a year.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
after that, you know, a year in like publishing terms,
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
even though it's probably only like eight issues that took typically Ted Kirkman a year to get out eight issues, so it's about the right timeline. You already said it, but there's Ottley Gore all over the place. The man just is... No one does it better. No one does it better. I can't say it enough. Conquest returning, another
Matt:
Ah.
Dave:
high point for me because Conquest is one of my favorite characters. uh it's bittersweet because I hate to lose a character like that but also he was so awful of a person it was very satisfying to have Mark finally kill him especially in the way that scene played out where Mark was just choking this dude and he held on so tight there's that
Matt:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehe hehehe
Dave:
one No, they're just going all over the surface of this planet. And then you can see like this, this big swath that's cut through a forest where Mark just rode this guy out from the neck, uh, even after getting
Matt:
That's
Dave:
punched
Matt:
what that was, that path.
Dave:
and then punched
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
a hole through. Yes.
Matt:
All right. Yeah.
Dave:
That was,
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
they
Matt:
I
Dave:
created
Matt:
didn't know what
Dave:
that
Matt:
that was.
Dave:
path.
Matt:
Okay, that makes sense.
Dave:
That and another reason why that is such a cool thing to me is that. That is another. Leveling up of Mark's strength. And that's happened a few times
Matt:
survived.
Dave:
throughout the comics so far, but he's taken another step towards being. Probably as strong or stronger than his dad now at this point. And that's
Matt:
good
Dave:
really,
Matt:
point.
Dave:
really cool. Also the Viltrumite war in general. That's something I've been waiting for, for a while to get to, to read again. did not disappoint. I love Space Racer too, I think he's a cool character with his DNA gun that only he can shoot that can punch holes through Viltrumites or whatever. Cool character. Nolan's growth and the return of Nolan. And, you know, he is such a divisive character in the invincible mythos because of how brutal his betrayal of Mark and Debbie is in the beginning. And then when you see him again for the first time and meet Oliver on that planet full of bug-like aliens, Kirkman just does such a great job of letting the reader feel wide range of emotions. He writes such human... with alien characters in alien places, manages to write such relatable content and everything that happens with Nolan in these two trades is really... you go through the emotions of forgiving someone that betrayed you personally and by the end of it he is such a likeable character. His redemption arc is one of the most satisfying redemption arcs in all of comics. It's a fact, it's an undeniable fact. And then the last sort of really good thing I wanted to call out was Oliver almost dying. Because I don't like Oliver.
Matt:
You don't like him at this point yet? You still don't like him?
Dave:
Not yet. Still
Matt:
Not
Dave:
not
Matt:
yet.
Dave:
there. Still not there. He is more likeable in these two trades, but he is still not fully likeable yet. I did enjoy him almost dying. He doesn't... what did he... he doesn't do anything, you know? Like
Matt:
He kind
Dave:
he's just
Matt:
of just
Dave:
kind
Matt:
gets
Dave:
of
Matt:
in the
Dave:
there.
Matt:
way. Yeah, he like, he gets in the
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
way.
Dave:
he gets like... every time they fight the villager mites this kid just gets murked.
Matt:
He put up a little resistance this time. He just gets too cocky.
Dave:
Did he?
Matt:
Like I feel like, yeah, like he like punched one of those Viltrum guys out. Trust me, I need to grow one of those Viltrumite mustaches too, I love how their whole culture has them. But,
Dave:
Well, I got the mustache in some of our old episodes.
Matt:
yeah,
Dave:
It's a look, man. You should
Matt:
that
Dave:
do
Matt:
Viltrum
Dave:
it.
Matt:
stash is great. Yeah, he was holding his own, but then he gets cocky and then it's just like, maneuver through your chest and you're done.
Dave:
It's got that Damien Wayne in it, man. I just don't
Matt:
He
Dave:
like
Matt:
does
Dave:
it.
Matt:
have a little bit of Damien. He's got a little bit of Damien. You don't like kids,
Dave:
Those
Matt:
do
Dave:
are
Matt:
you? Wait,
Dave:
that's
Matt:
wait, wait.
Dave:
it for my high points though. Those are my those are my five like really good things out of these trades.
Matt:
This is your this podcast is a chronicle. These are like no one's books of secrets. Like this is a book of you like how you hate kids. You all you do is you hate Damien.
Dave:
It's not how I
Matt:
You
Dave:
hate kids
Matt:
hate kids.
Dave:
though.
Matt:
You hate you hate him.
Dave:
I like
Matt:
I hate
Dave:
baby
Matt:
kids in
Dave:
Oliver.
Matt:
my movie.
Dave:
It's,
Matt:
I hate kids in my movie
Dave:
it's,
Matt:
theater.
Dave:
no.
Matt:
Like this is this podcast
Dave:
It's
Matt:
and
Dave:
tween
Matt:
testament.
Dave:
Oliver.
Matt:
These are your writings.
Dave:
Tween Oliver's the problem. Don't,
Matt:
What are your dislikes?
Dave:
no.
Matt:
Because I don't have I have like one. But yeah.
Dave:
Alright, so volume 13, similarly to volume 11 last month, volume 13 is still a little scattered. It doesn't feel like a complete set of six issues.
Matt:
I'm not letting you have this bro. You gave me my lunch last time. I didn't forget I said that. And you gave me my lunch about that. No, we need to have all that stuff. You need that. You need the low points to build to the high points. Now you're on my
Dave:
I wasn't
Matt:
side.
Dave:
coming at you though. I literally said the same thing about volume 11 last month. Go back and listen to it.
Matt:
I brought that up as a point and you screamed at me and then you said it the same thing I said
Dave:
I definitely
Matt:
later.
Dave:
did not scream at you. I did not scream at you. This is revisionist history. I'm literally
Matt:
Oh.
Dave:
looking at my notes from last month on the controversial, and I literally wrote down, volume 11 was a lot of set up and one-offs. That's... I don't know what you're talking about.
Matt:
It's gonna be back there.
Dave:
No, it's not. I'm regretting it already. Another, another, another sort of, I don't wanna say it's bad, but it's definitely like a low point. The sequins again, I just don't like the sequins, man. I just don't think that it's very cool. Once was enough, twice was like, okay, fine. The third time, dude, give him a rest. It's the same thing every time.
Matt:
It there. I would agree with you at this point because it was definitely obvious. It felt like filler like they're like the flaxen's, but not nearly as funny and bad. Look, it's not cool. Like the flaxen's
Dave:
Yes.
Matt:
I think are funny because they just constantly keep attacking and just losing. But yeah, I don't know.
Dave:
Speaking
Matt:
We only
Dave:
of
Matt:
need
Dave:
the Flaxons,
Matt:
one of those. Yeah.
Dave:
I should have pointed out in my recap, but I did not.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Before Mark left Earth
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
to go fight in the Viltrumite War, there was a Flaxon attack. At the end of that attack, Robot and Monster Girl went through the portal and are now in the universe that the Flaxons live in.
Matt:
And we don't know what's going
Dave:
That's
Matt:
on,
Dave:
also
Matt:
right?
Dave:
a...
Matt:
Like that's just, they just jumped through the portal and we don't know yet.
Dave:
Yeah, yeah, that was
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
it. They didn't come back to that, but we're gonna get the resolution there probably next month. And it's a pretty, it has, there's some domino effect that occurs because of that decision. My fault for not putting that in the recap, but
Matt:
Oh, we got you.
Dave:
that's a pivotal thing that happens.
Matt:
Yeah, that's a pretty big one. I do remember that.
Dave:
Yeah. The other sort of low point. Cecil, man, I, you know, I knew last month keeping Conquest alive and imprisoned was a bad idea, but. Doing so could have resulted in such a catastrophic. Universal event. Just play it out with me. What if Mark doesn't? actually kill Conquest when he and those Viltrumites attack the ship on their way back to Teleskriya. What if Nolan, Mark, and Oliver lose that fight? then more than likely the Viltrimites win when they attack Telestria and probably end up taking over the coalition of planets and continuing to spread through the universe unchecked. Cecil's selfish decision to keep Conquest alive could have resulted in ultimately Earth being overrun by the Ultramites in a not-so-fun way years later.
Matt:
And
Dave:
Dude sucks.
Matt:
it can be assumed that obviously Conquest was the one who got back to Viltrim and was like start the invasion or
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
something, right? Because he clearly like flew off and like...
Dave:
Oh yeah. Yeah. 100%. Well, he did that. They showed him going.
Matt:
flying
Dave:
He went
Matt:
up.
Dave:
and
Matt:
Okay,
Dave:
talked to Thrag. Like that happened.
Matt:
oh yeah, that's right, that's right. I completely
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
forgot
Dave:
that
Matt:
about
Dave:
happened.
Matt:
that scene. Yup, yup.
Dave:
Yeah. So that's Yeah, you're right. That's exactly what happened. So
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Cecil, man. He's always toeing the line, dude. He's the character that in every trade, you love him and you hate him multiple times throughout. And then my last bad thing, I had this last month as well, Oliver didn't die. Probably the last month I can use that because he should be older next month
Matt:
and
Dave:
and
Matt:
you'll
Dave:
I will
Matt:
start
Dave:
like
Matt:
to
Dave:
him
Matt:
like
Dave:
again.
Matt:
him. I mean, my only two dislikes was I like my optimistic hero. And I get that this comic is a little bit different, but Mark Killing, especially Russ Livingston. I mean, I know
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
that his hand was kind of forced, but him going kind of man of steel and doing the deed. I didn't like that. And it kind of put him on that Omni-Man path. And I'm like, oh man, he's just, it's gonna be kind of anything goes and his power. that filter might temper like I see when we first started like volume three, you're like, watch out for that filter might temper like this trade. These two trades, you really start to see that filter might temper kind of come out. And then
Dave:
Yep.
Matt:
I like the oddly art but I think it was issue like 77 when you were talking about Mark on the ship having visions of what's going on Earth. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I think we all have a little We all like Eve, you know, she's a sweetheart of all of
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
ours. We all got a little crush on Eve, and like seeing her just ripped apart, Debbie with her head ripped off with
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
the dude having their family photo piped in his head. Like it was like, I was like, whoa, this is like a lot. Cecil with his eyes bulging out of his head. That was a little graphic for me, but we gotta get there. I don't normally get squeamish, but I got a little squeamish on that issue.
Dave:
I loved
Matt:
But
Dave:
it.
Matt:
that's a
Dave:
I
Matt:
testament
Dave:
didn't get squeamish.
Matt:
to Ryan,
Dave:
I loved it.
Matt:
that's a testament to Ryan O'Leary. So
Dave:
It is, it is.
Matt:
yeah, hot takes, weird takes, random stuff.
Dave:
Controversial? Yeah. So I got a few. One, not telling us what happened with Eve's pregnancy. Like Mark
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
was gone
Matt:
so.
Dave:
for 10 months. I mean, I think it's pretty safe to assume she lost the baby. or
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
she had a baby and he doesn't know yet. She either lost the baby or he has a kid.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
We're gonna find out one way or another soon. But
Matt:
I
Dave:
those
Matt:
didn't think about
Dave:
mathematically
Matt:
that.
Dave:
speaking, those are the only two outcomes that make sense.
Matt:
Somewhat Two Children, I should probably know that, but no, I didn't think of that.
Dave:
Um, I, I mentioned this already, I think, but the, the recap at the end of volume 13, the, the invincible returns episode or issue, um, I just didn't love it. Cause I wasn't a new reader. I didn't really need that.
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
Um, had to read it. Just didn't, didn't love it. I don't know. Um,
Matt:
Makes sense.
Dave:
there was one issue. in volume 13. And I think it might've been the Universa issue and they were fighting her. But Eve kept saying crap. She'd be like, oh crap, oh crap. She said oh crap like six or seven times in that one issue and didn't say it for the first 60 issues of the comic. Says it like eight times in one issue and then doesn't say it again for the rest of the trade or the next one. I just, I don't know why I noticed that and then my brain latched onto it, but it was so weird how overused that phrase was in that one issue. I'd love to know why that is, but I know I'll never know. And for all I know, it wasn't even an intentional thing. It just seemed weird to me. And then my last controversial take. The first time I read The Viltrimite War, the way that the war ends, did not sit right with me.
Matt:
I fucking love
Dave:
And
Matt:
it.
Dave:
it still doesn't.
Matt:
I love it,
Dave:
That
Matt:
dude. I-
Dave:
is such an uncomfortable conclusion, which is part of the beauty of this comic, right?
Matt:
Keeps you reading.
Dave:
Kirkman puts you in these situations. Ultimately, there's a satisfying payoff if you stick around long enough, but the end of that is still so uncomfortable to me. Where, you know, your heroes... who have done everything right to try to win this fight and ultimately have probably done enough to win it, still end up holding a pretty massive L and there's not a thing they can do about it.
Matt:
Very small print. The war is over. But we didn't win. Mark Grayson. Love it, dude.
Dave:
Yep.
Matt:
Love it. That was on my list of hot takes. I loved it. Like, I thought
Dave:
Sorry.
Matt:
it was great. No, no, that's good. No, it's good. I love it. All right. I don't know if these are hot takes. Through this reading
Dave:
They don't have
Matt:
of
Dave:
to
Matt:
this.
Dave:
be hot takes, they can just
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
be controversial
Matt:
just
Dave:
opinions.
Matt:
yeah. Through this. through the reading of this, this time, no one's becoming one of my favorite characters, dude. If you said it, I don't really need to like go through it. He is showing his humanity as a character
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
in the growth of the character, much like on a much greater level than a Rexplode, but like Rexplode had like an arc where he came around and he, you know, as you get older, sometimes, um, you become more mature. Um, and I think.
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
Nolan's whole arc of having that light bulb moment that like, no, I really did love this woman and you know, my son showed me things that I didn't even think were possible. Like I love that. I love that whole concept that people can change, even though most of the times it feels like people can't, people can change for the better.
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
So I really, I really did like that. I like a little positivity. Everyone's in a while. Uh, my second controversial take. I think Cecil's right, man. I think Cecil's right.
Dave:
Oh no.
Matt:
Outside, outside of barring con- he really shouldn't like hold onto these like super powered individuals. Like if you want to capture some homeless people and whatever, and do your experience, like whatever, but like you c- he put Conq- I didn't- first of all, I thought Conquest was decapitated. I didn't know he was together. So he just had his head. His whole body was intact
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
but under a slab. Yeah, so like I didn't even, like I'm talking about the concussions, I didn't even remember that. So I just see Conquest
Dave:
Ha
Matt:
fly
Dave:
ha
Matt:
off.
Dave:
ha.
Matt:
I'm like, what is going on here? But that invincible returns issue, man. Like, Sisa was like hitting my man with some truth body blows. Like, bro, you're like, you're temper. Like you're flying off the handle. You're killing people. Like it was, I was like, he's. Like you said, Kirkman is an expert of writing him and he writes him in a certain way. We're like, yeah, he's doing bad stuff and we know he's doing bad stuff, but he's kind of right. But like you said, and you illustrate it, like the whole Conquest thing probably was not the best play because if those two dudes died, like it's a wrap at that point. Earth becomes like a birthing colony and like gears of war and like the Viltrumites are back.
Dave:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Matt:
they're enslaving the entire universe and it's over like real talk radio so uh okay Thaddeus is the true heel of this whole thing hear me out
Dave:
Really? Okay.
Matt:
Did... why did we get into this war? Who initiated this war? The Viltrimites, yes, they came to Earth, but they weren't imminently on their way back. Thaddeus was the one who initiated the war. He got... he had the conversation with Nolan, he had the conversation with Alan. He's the one who initiated this. He also could have potentially, once again, if... Um, Thrag, in this case, which I thought was interesting, cooler heads kind of prevailed. Thrag could have come to earth and done Mark's whole vision and just murdered everyone, but as hotheaded as Viltrumites can be, Thrag had the foresight and understanding to be like, we can't do this. Like we need to repopulate. Like it's over. Like it's over for us if we don't repopulate. So I thought that was kind of interesting. Like Thrag. Thrag kinda had more of the analytical approach. I get the looming threat of the Viltrumites that Thaddeus wanted to take out. If you're going to do that, I'm a firm believer, like war is a horrible thing. Like I never want to be involved in war. I think war, real talk, is just like a horrible thing. But sometimes if you're gonna go to war, you're gonna go to war. If you're gonna go to war with the Viltrumites, wipe them all out, use the Scourge virus, and be done with it. You're... You're causing less casualties, you might as well do it. It's horrible, but if that's how you feel and you're gonna go to war, go to war with someone. That's why you don't go to war.
Dave:
It's hard to deny the things that you're saying and I agree for the most part. I think that calling Thaddeus the bad guy
Matt:
Heel.
Dave:
is a stretch.
Matt:
I didn't call him a bad guy, I called him a heel. No.
Dave:
Okay, okay. I guess he is a little bit on the heel side of things. But using the scourge virus is also meaning death for himself and Nolan and Mark and I think he was... trying to avoid that at all costs.
Matt:
He's
Dave:
Because...
Matt:
a self-preservationist. Well, he doesn't care about the,
Dave:
Yeah, well he
Matt:
he
Dave:
thought...
Matt:
doesn't, he doesn't care about the good of the, he doesn't care about the good of the universe. It's their three lives versus the entire universe. Most
Dave:
I think he thought
Matt:
people.
Dave:
that they could take out 50 Viltrumites with the might of all of the planets combined, and all of these weapons that Nolan had bestowed them with based on his knowledge throughout the years of trying to remove them from the board.
Matt:
Guess.
Dave:
know, I'm with Thaddeus, man. I'm staying with Thaddeus. I think he was doing the
Matt:
Dad,
Dave:
right thing.
Matt:
daddy
Dave:
Putting
Matt:
says
Dave:
myself
Matt:
it.
Dave:
in his shoes, you know, he thought for the longest time that he was the only Viltrumite to ever defect. Then he learns about Nolan and that Nolan has a son and his son feels the same way. And all of a sudden, I think if you're Thaddeus, you've now got, you've got this glimmer of hope that didn't exist before. And because you now have hope that maybe there are more Viltromites that can be turned. You'd go
Matt:
Okay.
Dave:
this route first. You try a few things before going to the nuclear option. Maybe, I don't know. We'll never know, because the dude got his head ripped off. So, that's a wrap on Thaddeus.
Matt:
Can we add likes that we like the name Thaddeus? That's an incredible name, by the way. Unknown
Dave:
Yeah,
Matt:
one, Thaddeus,
Dave:
yeah, I'm a big
Matt:
that's
Dave:
fan
Matt:
a great
Dave:
of Thaddeus.
Matt:
like. It's a great name. And then my other like we talked about was just like, I really, or whatever controversial thing was just like, I'm really liking the complexity of the Viltrum Empire. Like, I get it. Like, it's, they're the bad guys. They are the bad guys, but like,
Dave:
Mm-hmm.
Matt:
you can kind of understand. I feel like Zack Snyder stole this. Like this is what Zod is kind of like in those Man of Steel
Dave:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Matt:
movies, like trying to repopulate. Like he definitely read some Invincible. I feel like it's the same thing. Um, but
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
yeah, dude, this was awesome. Uh, I'm probably going to start reading, uh, at a slower pace, but like I, that ending I'm just like, I gotta get start reading again. Like I just,
Dave:
Yeah.
Matt:
we can't leave it like that. It's too much unresolved business. So.
Dave:
This is this is the start of a bit of a fast finish For the comic we're now This is our seventh part. That means we only have five left So we're on the back half of the series now We're more than more I think we're exactly or slightly more than 50% of the way through Because the Viltrum I wore it was eight issues long So we're fast approaching its conclusion, and it does not slow down at all anymore. If I'm remembering correctly, it's breakneck speed from here on out. So there'll be a lot to talk about, that's for sure.
Matt:
I'm excited.
Dave:
Me too. I'm probably going to start reading soon too, just because
Matt:
Yeah.
Dave:
I had to do a little bit of last minute reading today
Matt:
Yeah,
Dave:
actually
Matt:
exactly.
Dave:
before we recorded to make sure I'd be ready on time. So
Matt:
Yeah, you did
Dave:
I do
Matt:
great,
Dave:
need
Matt:
man.
Dave:
to be a
Matt:
It
Dave:
little
Matt:
was a great
Dave:
bit
Matt:
recap
Dave:
better.
Matt:
as always. You did great.
Dave:
Thanks,
Matt:
I didn't
Dave:
thanks,
Matt:
I didn't know
Dave:
thanks.
Matt:
I didn't know any better You could have been like I read the whole thing today All right
Dave:
So one more reminder for everybody. New season of Invincible starts November 3rd. If you haven't watched season one yet, if you're like Matt and you haven't prioritized watching the greatest superhero show on the planet, now's the time to go watch season one. It's only eight episodes and the episodes are less than an hour. This is light work to get through season one. Then you've got Adam Eaves. Origin and then boom season two comes back Get on it for me do it for me One more thing you can do for me is you can like the podcast share it with a friend Give it a review whatever interact with us in some way to help grow our reach We're also on Twitter. Although I don't know how much longer I'll be on Twitter
Matt:
I don't know how much longer
Dave:
I'm
Matt:
Twitter's
Dave:
trying to
Matt:
gonna
Dave:
move
Matt:
be around.
Dave:
to Yeah, I'm trying to move to
Matt:
For
Dave:
threads
Matt:
being honest.
Dave:
So I will put our Twitter handles in the description of this video or audio episode per usual. I'm also probably going to put my threads handle in there too, because I'm really trying to move all my stuff to threads. I just it's a better experience and there's a lot going on Twitter that I'm just not cool with anymore. So really trying to get off of Twitter. We'll be back in two weeks. We've got some movie review episodes coming up as well as another invincible episode in August. So three episodes in August. Remember, we're every other Monday, and then our Inventable episode drops whenever the heck it drops. It'll be a surprise, probably to us and to you.
Matt:
Hahaha
Dave:
With that being said, I appreciate everyone that takes the time to listen to us and follows the podcast, and we'll see y'all in a couple of weeks. Until then, my name is Dave.
Matt:
And I'm out.
Dave:
Take care of yourselves, everybody.
Matt:
Peace.